Dave Smith: Mossad, WWII Myths, FBI Cover-Ups, and Trump\u2019s Critical Next Move in Iran
Источник: https://tuckercarlson.com/tucker-show-dave-smith-040126
============================================================

[Транскрипт]

Tucker [00:00:04] So
it does seem like in addition to everything, first of all, Dave, thank you, as
always. We're late, because we just had such a long breakfast, two and a half
hour breakfast. I hope this conversation could be as interesting as our
breakfast just was. But in addition, everything else changing, you made such a
smart point a minute ago about the means of convincing the public, the
propaganda machine is completely broken. And so what does that mean? You're in
the middle of a war, you're in a middle of, of a Massive power shift globally
like everything is changing the economy military strength like everything and
It's impossible to know Who is telling the truth like who comes out more
credible in this in the media? Like who are the people you listen to? What's
that look like? 

 

Dave Smith [00:00:51] Well,
I think everybody who's being authentic, I think, is who's coming out ahead of
this. It seems like if you look at like the podcast numbers, you know what I
mean? Like it's the people who are being critical of the regime's policies.
It's the, from my perspective, the people are telling the truth. And so in the
media world, I think there's been this, as you know, because you were in the
old. Media world for so long. Only 35 years. Not, there you go. Okay, not that
long, a little bit. You put a little bit of time in. I'm implicated. Yes. But
look, I, I always thought, and I mean this, I used to watch you back on, uh, on
your MSNBC show. Um, and you were always one of the very few kind of authentic
people, you know, when you were wrong about stuff and things that you look back
on and you're like, Oh, I've changed my mind about all that. But it's an
incredibly phony world. Like news in general, there's something about it that's
very, you know, it's very welcome back to the six o'clock news and you know
it's just like what is that? 

 

Tucker [00:01:53] That's
not how you talk. Credibility doesn't derive from being right about everything.
Credibility derives from being honest. 

 

Dave Smith [00:01:58] Yes,
yes. But so I think after, um, after the first 20 years or so, first 15 years
of the 21st century, and you know, at this point, what it were 26 years into to
the 21 century now, it's a, the government, every single crisis that that's
happened, and we've had quite a few, you know at nine 11 and we had the global
war on terrorism. We had, uh, the huge financial crash in 2008, we had COVID,
we had that. Okay. So on every single crisis, the government and the media just
lied through their teeth to the American people and got exposed. Like, it's not
like anyone now thinks like maybe Saddam really did have weapons of mass
destruction. We all know, we all know if you get the vaccine, you can get
COVID. Turns out you can get COVID even after having the vaccine as everyone
who got the vaccine also got COVID or just about. Um, and, and so it was like,
all these phonies and media lying us on behalf of power, lying to us about
these policies. And at the same time as they were getting exposed for all of
this, and I do think COVID did it almost more than anything, because the global
war on terrorism was over there, but COVID was over here and affected everyone.
Also, obviously the covering for a clearly senile president was a pretty easy
one for everyone to see through. But so while all that was happening, also the
technology simultaneously got to a point where you know, you can do this for a
reasonable amount of money. You know what I mean? Like it's not, in 1980, if
you wanted to set up your own TV studio, you needed a corporation to get behind
you because who had the resources? Whereas everyone now can open their
computer. If you have a phone, you record yourself and put it out there. So the
technology allowed for tremendous parody and the lying us into all of these
disasters resulted in people really craving authenticity. And so the, you know,
it's just like the propaganda machine got broken. Now, to your point, the
policies are still going on. And that just creates a very interesting new time.
Like there just, there never was, I cannot imagine if, while George W. Bush was
trying to, you, uh, push the war in Iraq, let's say for all of 2002, they spent
the full year building the case for what we'll imagine every day Bill O'Reilly
and Sean Hannity were calling out George W. Bush for his lies. Like the people
who George W Bush voters trusted the most were hearing their favorite
newscaster calling it, telling the truth, doing news. Well, you can't even
fathom what that would be. Well that's what it's like now. Now that's the
situation and I don't know what that means exactly, but I know that Governments
all around the world have invested heavily in propaganda campaigns for a reason
Because they think that's really important They think it's important that they
don't just go invade Iraq but that they convince you first that he's got
nuclear weapons And he's in bed with the terrorists and they're you know,
whatever Condoleezza, right? So we don't want the warning to be in the form of
a mushroom cloud from the bomb that doesn't exist His terrorist friends who he
hates who he's not friends with at all. But um, but so now we're in this new
world And it's very exciting as someone who's a part of it, and it's an
exciting moment to be alive, but it is certainly a dangerous one. They say the
most dangerous time for a woman to leave, the most danger time for an abused
woman is when she tries to leave. Like that's when he might kill you. And
that's kinda how I feel about the government right now. 

 

Tucker [00:05:41] I
think you're I think that's so first of all so well put and also so true
Because it can't actually last that much longer because the disparity in power
is too great So I think a lot of people who have podcasts I've been in so many
different kinds of media. It's hard to remember what this one's called. It was
podcasting It's the same, you know sure 

 

Dave Smith [00:06:01] I,
it's a kind of silly term that doesn't really make sense. We don't have iPods
anymore. I don't know why it just, that one just stuff for whatever reason. 

 

Tucker [00:06:07] It's
so true, but people who have you know in independent media feel like they have
a lot of power. I've got so much power They have no power. They don't control
The the medium really they don't call YouTube. No, they don't have The FBI
their disposal they don't have nuclear weapons. So Actually, they are powerless
and through a quirk of history because we're in a change moment That's not
obvious, but it has to be obvious. There's too much at stake, right? 

 

Dave Smith [00:06:36] There
was a don't they have to be crushed. I think it was the CNN lady She used to
work for vice I believe but the the girl who was like known for interviewing
like the alt-right figures And she interviewed Tim Dillon last year and it was
right after Trump Won his election and or shortly after and she said, you know
something like you guys are the real The power center now, you don't like it
you podcasters you guys were the ones with power cuz I guess Well, okay, more
people watch these shows than watch the traditional shows, and Trump came and
did a bunch of them, and then he won re-election, and Kamala Harris was too
scared for, wisely. People say that was a real mistake. She should have done
Rogan. No, it wasn't. It was a really good call. It was really, really good
called by her team to not do Rogan actually is like after 2016 when they were
like, well, you know, Hillary Clinton's campaign is so stupid. She didn't visit
Wisconsin more. And you're like, you really think they're that stupid? No. Her
numbers went down. Every time she went, so they're like stop going, it didn't
like her. That's why she didn't go. It's which it was actually the, her best
chance was that. Um, but anyway, but so the, so you know what they say, Oh, you
guys, you know, since you guys got President Trump elected. You're the real
power center now and it's like pretty sure the CIA still has a little bit of
power. I think there's still like a little bit hanging on in the Pentagon. I'm
not quite sure. It's all in Theo Von's hands at this point, you know? Um, but
yes, so that's the dynamic. No, I know. So that's the dynamic. 

 

Tucker [00:07:58] So
it can't continue. I mean, let's be totally honest. If you, what everyone
forgets about Tank Man and Tiananmen Square is like, he probably got, we don't
even know what happened to him. We don't know his name. Probably crushed by the
tank, actually. Almost certainly, yes. Almost certainly. I'm not laughing. I am
laughing because just the delusion that people have, I've got a voice. It's
like. 

 

Dave Smith [00:08:20] Well,
but that's the weird, it's very strange for both these things to be going on at
the same time. That's why I said to you at breakfast, my analogy is the, you
know, on the Road Runner cartoons when you run off the side of the cliff, but
you're still in the air for a moment, and then you look down and realize, oh,
it was like, we're there. Like, how can you keep doing this? So those people, I
mean, and. You know, obviously for me personally, like it's kind of fascinating
because I've been in this world and over the last two and a half years or so,
I've done, I mean like if you count like all the, you know debates and the
Piers Morgan debates or Oxford style debates, I've like done 35, 40 debates on,
you know just Israel or the warfare state or whatever it is, Ukraine, a lot of
these things. I've never, it's like the side, broadly speaking, because there's
a lot of differences amongst people who disagree with, say, the war in Iran, or
US support for Israel destroying Gaza. But broadly speaking it's not only like
we've won the debate, we've like just crushed the, you know, it not just me,
there's lots of people involved in this, you more so probably than anyone, But
when you see like you look at the polls there was this one poll i saw and that
this is just one poll but there's a lot that back this up but that it was on
before october seventh they ask who do you sympathize with more the israelis or
the palestinians and it was plus forty eight for the israels yeah it's now plus
one for the palestenians and in the u.s. In the us and to just think so
basically a fifty point shift in in a little over two years and I mean I don't
know, you've been, you were doing this for longer than me. When does that ever
happen? When does any issue ever swing by 50 points in two years? It'd be like,
if you, if I were to tell you, in two year, this country would be 95% pro-life.
You'd be, it's like, whoa! What happened in those two years? Well, I mean, the
pro lifers most are really won the argument. You know what I mean? Like, and so
now that we've had for the first time ever a media environment where say Israel
is not completely protected, like what, what were the debates about supporting
Israel on MSNBC or CNN? No, they don't exist. They never happen. You're not
allowed to have those. Yes. There's not maybe like one kind of critical of
Israel host will slip in here or there, but if he says too much, he's getting
fired pretty quickly. And so So we essentially won the debate, it's not close.
It's not, there's not a question of, yes, in a very short period of time,
because there was actually a fair open media system now, where it was really
democratized in a way, and so you can't look and go. You know, are you're
bigger than you've ever been before. Candace Owens is bigger than she's ever
been. Before I know I'm bigger than I've ever been before, Ben Shapiro is
weaker and more of a laughing stock than ever before. You know, like it's just
very up. But then at the same time, who won the policy game? Mark Levin, you know?
The president is tweeting, go watch Mark Leven show today. And his fan, his
base, his voters are going, I think I'll check out Tucker Carlson. And you
know, I think I'll and so. So anyway, there's just this very weird thing where
like we won the argument we had the national debate we and we won And yet we're
at war with iran on behalf of israel. And I think what you're getting at is
like that does just feel Totally unsustainable like there's either you got to
clamp down on these guys like us Or you got a reverse the policy and um Really
hoping it's the latter 

 

Tucker [00:12:13] People
don't like to be criticized for their mistakes, and I know this from having a
wife and children, totally fine to be, you know, criticized for something you
feel confident is the right thing. But if you screw something up and someone
says, say, say, I told ya, you wanna shoot the person. It's very hard for
people to deal with that. And so, if you have a war like this, which is
obviously, you now, this is one of the most profound moments of my lifetime.
This is much more profound than 9-11, I think. Thankfully, not as, you know,
very... Relatively few Americans have died, but you can see that this is the
end of something. I'm in the consequences are very very serious in the middle
of that To criticize the decision to start the process that led to this Feels
like you're gonna be punished for that 

 

Dave Smith [00:13:00] Do
you feel that? Yes, I know exactly what you mean. And I, you know, I almost,
like on some, I don't know, in some way I feel like the political thing or the
wise calculation here would almost be to be like, Mr. President Trump, you did
such a phenomenal job with this and it's such a success that we should just
stop right now and declare victory or something like, you know what I mean? But
I'm just no good at being a political operative. I'm only good at telling the
truth. Like it's all I, I only have one speed. You know, Ben Shapiro called me
out recently and called me a bunch of names and then said, she said, I know I
can hear Dave right now saying, debate me, bro, if you believe this, why don't
you debate me? And he goes, no, no. I don't debate with him. But he's kind of
right in a way that that is my response. I mean, I only have one speed. It's
all I know how to do. Like, come podcast with me. I don't know. 

 

Tucker [00:13:53] Anything
else so well because you're rooted in kind of the old America where you know
there was a free market not just in the economy but like intellectually free
market of ideas yeah we're supposed to have it at least yeah that the whole
country is built on that yeah and so but so that Ben Shapiro and etc they don't
share that view or they don't share that view at all. 

 

Dave Smith [00:14:10] He
knows the ideas can't hold up. I mean, he'll debate a 19-year-old
gender-confused kid because he knows he can win that debate, you know? It's not
that that kid's more serious than me, you know, that's not really the issue.
But anyway, I guess, so just to that, like I only have one speed, I only know
how to just tell you what I think is really going on here. And I think you're
right, I think this is such a disaster because. Donald Trump, first of all,
it'd be very difficult at this point, even if he wanted to just stop the thing,
which I think he does at this point want to stop the- I think it seems to me
like he believed this could be quick and easy like Venezuela, and we're way
past that at this point, but he can't just stop now. Obviously, there's the
Iranians, and the Israelis are involved in this too, and it doesn't seem like
either of them wanna stop right now. So there, you got a big problem. But also,
Look, this isn't Venezuela. There's, I don't know what the latest CENTCOM numbers
are. I thought 13 dead Americans was the last I saw. The 150 plus wounded
number came out weeks ago. I don't know what that's up to now. Our bases in the
region have been very badly damaged. The damage to the global economy. So it's
not Venezuela. You can't just come out of this and then pretend something
really great happened. If he stops right now, then It's like, oh, you just
started a disaster for no reason on behalf of a foreign country. Like, this is
just. Then there's a couple factors, I've seen this play, I know you've seen
over the years, certainly during the global war on terrorism, where there is, I
guess what you could call like the sunk cost fallacy of war, which is the worst
of all sunk cost fellacies. But you go, well, those boys died for nothing if we
don't finish the job. And it's like, oh man, is that a bad trap to get into?
Because the reality is that those boys died for nothin', that's over. And if
you continue this, more boys will die for nothing. And so no one, you know,
Pierce Morgan had a panel once, or a debate between Scott Horton, who is the,
as you know you've had him on the show, the most incredible foreign policy guy
in the country, like just unbelievable levels of brilliance. And his books,
Enough Already, Fools Errand, which are about the global war on terrorism, are
the best books written on the subject. His book, Provoked, about the war in
Ukraine is the best book written on this subject. They're literally 

 

Tucker [00:16:42] They're
literally exhaustive. I only know Scott Horton because of you and what
improvement to my life. 

 

Dave Smith [00:16:47] Yeah,
I mean he's the he is that he's been such an incredible resource like he's a
good great friend of mine One of my closest friends, but he's also just been
he's like my mentor in the foreign policy stuff And he's just so great because
he's good. He's such a tool cuz he's got a photographic memory So like I can
literally just call him at any point and you'll just be like when Iran invaded
Iraq in 1980 The in 1982 weren't they fighting here? And then he'll just do it.
Yeah, they were fighting here and here and then this guy has all their names
and everything It's really incredible. But so he was debating. Wesley Clark on
Pierce Morgan's show to talk about the new media world that we live in and how
crazy it is now that Scott Horton gets to square off with the four-star general
and Wesley Clark who you know look I have my issues with him but he did give us
that great admission about the seven countries in five years so I'll always
kind of be grateful to him now he tries to walk that back but we all heard what
you said but he goes at one point Talking about I believe it was Gaza if I'm
getting this correct he, and he said this was while it was still, you know, in
intensely going on. And he goes, but if we just leave now, then Hamas gets to
say they won. And you're like, sir, general, that's your opinion on war, but
that's a recipe to be in forever war. Always. We can't ever leave anywhere
because so what happens is you get this thing where it's like, there's the sunk
cost fallacy. We can leave now because we have to win. And then Donald Trump,
is now, of course, he put his entire presidency on the line for this, which was
really foolish. And so now he's just, he's gotta get a win. Let me get a wind
and then I can get out, you know? So let's do a big thing. But then you do a
thing and they respond with a big thing and then you go, shoot, now we gotta
respond to that and this is the escalation trap, right? Like that, and this was
what people like me and you have been talking about for years. The all the war
hawks in the country really enjoyed mocking me and you for the last seven
months or whatever it's been from between the 12 day war and and this latest
war in Iran going oh you guys were acting like this was going to be a disaster
and look it wasn't a disaster okay we're back in it now and it's a disaster and
precisely zero of those people are going oh I guess I was wrong about that 

 

Tucker [00:19:05] No,
no, they'll they'll be clamoring for you to be arrested and imprisoned. Of
course. Right. Because, you know, your existence is a mark of shame because you
remember. So anyone who remembers has to be taken off the board. I'm just
interested not I never think about, you know those those people, the Mark
Levin. I say a prayer for Mark Leven every day because it's my religion I'm
supposed to. But he's not I mean, Mark LeVin's an idiot. He's not pulling any
strings. He's a tool of larger forces. Yes. What I'm fascinated by are the
assumptions that ordinary, non-Mark Levin Americans have about the United
States, the nature of power, history that allowed us to make the greatest
mistake of my lifetime, which is this war. What are those, and a lot of this
has to do with the Second World War. Yeah, oh yeah. We're reading the wrong
lessons into that, and I just want to say for the 100th time, I'm the opposite
of pro-Nazi, I'm against authoritarianism in all its forms. But why is it that
we look at the Second World War and then make a bunch of false assumptions that
get us into engagements like this that hurt us? 

 

Dave Smith [00:20:15] Well,
is that what are the myths? Well, I think the way, the way I look at it, right.
And, um, this is, you know, I've defended Darrell Cooper quite publicly, quite
often for what he said on your show, which really it was, by the way. It's so
revealing and totally proves his point. The response to that was because
there's just no reason why that should have been such a huge thing. You know,
but like the thing is that 

 

Tucker [00:20:39] Hey
Daryl Cooper, did Hitler kill a lot of Jews? Yeah, he did. He did like hours of
podcasts on it. Of course Hitler killed a lot of Jews. I mean, what? That's not
even enough. That's not even up. 

 

Dave Smith [00:20:48] He
just put out episode two of his new series on World War II, which I have not, I
heard the first one, I have not gotten a chance to listen to the second one
yet. The first one's so good. They're all so good! 

 

Tucker [00:20:56] They're
also really about that. I don't think any sane person I've never heard anybody
in my life say Hitler didn't kill a ton of Jews or hit her like love that you
know Hitler hate the Jews killed a ton Jews. That's bad. Everyone agrees with
that It's not really the Holocaust that they're mad about that's not well look
I mean 

 

Dave Smith [00:21:13] The
threat. Right, so World War II was, objectively speaking, the worst thing
that's ever happened in the world. Yes. Right, it was the biggest bloodbath in
human history. Exactly. And destroyed Europe, and it's just so, it's so
horrible, you think about that, that humanity reached such a height in the 19th
century. The 19th Century, there's two things that happened that could not have
been predicted. You would have seemed insane if you had predicted it
beforehand. Probably the two greatest achievements in human history are that,
um, well, there's the industrial revolution and for the first time ever they're
like, there's economic growth. You know, like if you, if you look at economic
growth on a chart, It basically doesn't exist until the industrial revolution.
There's just different apportionments as well. So for the first time ever,
human beings escaped like the back brushing, back breaking poverty of nature.
You know what I mean? 

 

Tucker [00:22:09] Or
they escaped zero-sum economics. Yes, well, right, zero-some economics, but
just- Where people got rich by looting. Now you can get rich by creating things
that didn't exist before. 

 

Dave Smith [00:22:18] And
we could raise the standard of living in a meaningful way in very basic, you
know Ways and also there was the abolition of slavery Which just would have
seemed like that that was the way of the world for all of human history and
that I'm saying the abolition Of slavery in the West obviously there are other
parts of the World that still had it Yeah, and then the Industrial Revolution
was in the west also So that you know, but these amazing things happen and then
in the 20th century We take that industrial capacity to go to total war with
each other And in the case of the first World War, just over nonsense, I mean
over a political assassination. It's not even clear. Yeah, it's not like
somehow this thing spins into this catastrophe. But so after World War II,
that's even bloodier than World War I, which was supposed to be the war to end
all wars. And it wasn't, it was the war to create the conditions for the worst
war in human history. And of course, as you've talked about and gotten a lot of
heat for, civilians were targeted on all sides. Now, of course, we didn't go
genocidal in the way that Adolf Hitler went, but we targeted cities when we
knew the military was out, you know, targeting women and children, dropping
nuclear bombs on cities. And so, and also, the kind of, the military industrial
complex, the national security apparatus, were truly created in the aftermath
of World War II. Like, there were intelligence aid, but the CIA has created.
And the form of government that we actually live under was kind of erected
during and after World War II. And so you've got the most profoundly awful thing
that's ever happened and this new government plus a new government in Israel a
couple years later that are created. And so when you have something like that,
you really gotta tell yourself a damn good story about why that is justified.
And that's not, when you say this, sometimes people go, oh, sorry, you're
saying the Holocaust didn't really happen. It's like, no, they don't know. It
really happened. It really happens. The point is that, yes, the point is that
the Holocaust happened in a context of 60 million people dying. You know what I
mean? Like, it's... 

 

Tucker [00:24:22] It's
just so funny it's all reduced to the okay just to be totally clear not denying
the Holocaust Okay, it's not about that the thing the immediate post-war
changes that you just listed the Deindustrialization of the West the partition
of India mm-hmm the you know the Creation of the national security state if I
could say an authoritarian national security State in the West the Delivering
half of Europe to the Soviets yeah the partition of Germany. These are all the
genocide of German civilians after the war. 

 

Dave Smith [00:24:57] Mass,
mass ethnic cleansing, mass rapes and murders, and all types of horrible stuff,
yeah. 

 

Tucker [00:25:02] So
none of it's not a defensive Hitler whom I oppose to say all those are bad It's
just kind of interesting that this war which was supposedly so great gave birth
to things that are subjectively the worst things 

 

Dave Smith [00:25:16] Yeah,
and what is that? Well, look, I mean, it's a disaster of government, you know,
total power. And they're, but look, even like if you say like, if you're
talking about the Revolutionary War, like let's just say like back in the 1980s
or something like, a school teacher's teaching kids about the revolutionary
war. They don't go like, well, you know the King of England was taxing a little
bit more than he should, and then. The framers kind of had these wild
conspiracy theories about what he was going to come do. None of that was really
true. And anyway, they got into the, you know, they tell you George Washington
never told a lie. And when he chopped down the apple tree, he said to his paw,
I can't lie to you. Cause like human beings just need this narrative. And so
what ended up happening was that the very, when you challenge world war two
orthodoxies, you're challenging what Darrell calls the load bearing myths. You
know, the load-bearing pillars of the existence of the most powerful forces in
the world. And, you know, you, look, it's, it's very clear, like, again, the
reaction to Darrell is the proof of the claim. Like, what is this? If somebody
were to say, you now, this is how you find out what the national religion
really is. You know? I could sit here and trash Thomas Jefferson for raping as
slaves. It doesn't matter what you say about it. It doesn' matter. This isn't
gonna generate any outrage at all, you know? In fact, it might generate some
applause from different quarters. And so, but you talk about this and it's
very, very different. And then, as you've seen, as we've all seen, it's used to
justify every subsequent war. 

 

Tucker [00:26:57] Everybody
is just by authoritarianism 

 

Dave Smith [00:26:59] Yeah,
that's right. Everybody is Adolf Hitler. I've lived through the, the, you know,
um, it's Saddam Hussein was Adolf hitler. Noriega was Adof Hitler. Bashar
al-Assad is Adof Hitler. Vladimir Putin's Adolf. Hitler. You're Adolf, Hitler.
Nick Fuentes is Adolph. Like every, every time they want to smear someone, that
the smear they go with. Donald Trump got the same treatment. Um, and, and
anytime you oppose a war, well, you're Neville Chamberlain. You know, if I, if
think like, Hey, we should just put in writing that we'll never bring Ukraine
into NATO. Cause man, this is causing all these problems. Okay. Neville
Chamberlain, you would have just given Czechoslovakia. It's like, dude, that's
not the only lesson in history. The only lesson is history is not always go
with aggression, never go with deescalation. But so that's kind of what this
has been turned into. And I do think, um, 

 

Tucker [00:27:52] But
I would just say big picture, if it was such a victory, why are all the winners
falling apart less than 100 years later? Yeah. Yeah, that's a fair point. Like
what, I don't, again, shut up, you're pro-Hitler for the fifth time. Not pro-
Hitler in any sense. Well, to quote- But what's the answer to that question? 

 

Dave Smith [00:28:10] Well,
there's a brilliant philosopher named Rosie Perez. And in the film, white men
can't jump. She said, sometimes when you win, you really lose. Yeah. And you
know, it is such a simple, but very, very true statement. And there is
something about, well, isn't it kind of interesting that the United States of
America started as the experiment in restrained government. Right? Like there
had really never been a government that was created. That was so restrained.
And the whole idea of it was like, we're going to take the power of a King and
then we're gonna scatter that amongst three different branches in the federal
government. And the federal Government really only oversees all these state
governments that have their own autonomy. And we are these United States of
America. And even as we became more centralized, obviously, the articles of
confederation got overthrown and the constitution gets put in and then, you
know, but even say like if you look after this from the end of the civil war,
this was always the best stuff about like Milton Friedman books and stuff. But
there in this part, I really think those Chicago guys got it right. Um, that if
you looked from the ended civil war so like 19 or excuse me, 1865 to around say
1910. Okay. In this period of time the unit try to imagine that this was our
government. Okay? The, the U S government, the, federal government spent like
maybe like one and a half or 2% of the national income, a tiny amount of
spatter. There was no mass federal regulation or anything like that. There was
central bank, there was no income tax. Just try to imagine, this was truly the
closest to a real experiment in free market capitalism that humanity had ever
seen. And the result of that was the biggest economic expansion in human
history. The greatest raising of the lot and life of the average person. You
know, like where the average could actually have a pretty nice life and you
could work at the factory and your wife didn't have to work and you owned a
house and you sent your kids to college and you drove a couple of cars. You
played poker on the weekends with your buddy. Like you had a good life. And if
you look at the United States of America today, it is the most powerful
government in the history of the world. Like somehow this thing that started as
an experiment in the smallest government, became the biggest government that
the world's ever known. And so there's almost something where, well, what
happens is these free markets create so much prosperity that there's so much
more of a tax base. And now the political class can tax you more and more and
more and you're still living a pretty good life, even though they're getting
fat off of you, you know what I mean? And so similarly sometimes something like
after World War II, you see this with America and then you really see it after
the collapse of the Soviet union, where it's like, because you win, you get so
much power. But as Lord Atkin said, that power tends to corrupt. And so you get
all this power, but then it totally corrupts your own soul. I think that's kind
of the story of America. 

 

Tucker [00:31:10] Of
America. And I think it's the story of our lives. I mean, the number of men I
know who've gotten what they wanted, what they worked for, the job, the exit,
you know, sale of whatever they built, all of a sudden they win and then they
fall apart. I've seen that so much. I felt it in my own life, by the way, for
sure. You know, easy success is not good for you at all. Struggle is good for.
And so I wonder if the United States was hollowed out by its own victory. This
loss, and unfortunately I think we can say already, it's hard to imagine
getting out of this without being diminished. 

 

Dave Smith [00:31:45] Yeah.
I mean what is, what is a victory here? I mean, you know, it's, it's also a
terrible situation where victory might victory might be the worst case
scenario. I means like you know like victory, like if the whole goal is to
topple the regime, you're like, okay, but every other time we've toppled the
regime in this neck of the woods, it's led to migrant crises and death and
terrorism. 

 

Tucker [00:32:10] You
can't topple a regime in the Persian Gulf because the world's energy supply
needs to move through it. You have to extract it, refine it, make it into
petrochemicals, do whatever you want. In the Persian gulf, then you have to get
it out of the Persian Gulf. So that means you have a controlling authority. You
have strong governments there or else some rebel group, Houthis, with drones,
will shut the whole thing down. You have have to have. You can't have chaos in
Iran. 

 

Dave Smith [00:32:37] Yeah,
they call it the Persian Gulf for a reason. 

 

Tucker [00:32:39] Exactly.
You can call it the Arabian Gulf, the other half is Persian. It doesn't matter.
Chaos in the Persian Gulf means no energy or fertilizer from the Persian Gulf,
period. So you're going to piracy there. So the option to that is keeping an
Iranian regime in place, and that means that Iran is more powerful than it was
when the war started. This is all so obvious. Unless you nuke them, which is, I
think, an option. And then you set off a chain reaction that, you know, is the
worst thing imaginable. So, anyway. I think there's no way to see this as a
win. I pray it is, but I don't see it. If it is a loss, maybe that is not all
bad for the U.S. 

 

Dave Smith [00:33:19] Well,
there is a, I think sometimes things need to get really bad before they get
better. You know that things need to get bad so that people wake up even more.
Um, there's no question. People have woken up a lot, but maybe people just need
to get angrier, you know, and, and I, I don't know. I don't know what the
result of this is. 

 

Tucker [00:33:38] I'm
trying to see this in the fullness of history in God's plan, but I just,
because it feels like such a disaster it's affecting my sleep. I love America,
I have kids, I don't want this to happen, I'm not in control, obviously. But I
do think that, like, you're often surprised by the downstream results of
things. I think people who return from Normandy would be shocked by the
condition of the United States and Great Britain 80 years later. They are
shocked. Ever see them interviewed? Some 100 year old guys like, we died for
this? 

 

Dave Smith [00:34:06] No
it's uh... And it's totally i mean like talk about just disgracing their
sacrifice you know it's the greatest discredits are more 

 

Tucker [00:34:16] to
their sacrifice on our behalf. But I wonder if the opposite isn't also true
that maybe in your defeat there are things that, I mean, I know this is true
for me. Every time I've gotten sick or gotten fired, like I just, I understand
the world better and I become more joyful and stronger. 

 

Dave Smith [00:34:34] Do
you feel that? Yeah, no, I know for sure. I mean, many times in my life. And
yeah, you learn a lot more from your losses. Yeah, your defeats are actually
your victories in retrospect. That's right. And, but, you know, the problem is
just, this is, man, we're just playing with fire with this thing, because it's
so dangerous. You know, it's, um. What worries you most? Well, I guess, I'd
say, number one, I what we're doing to those people over there. I mean, I think
it's just like horrible. And I don't say this as like, I'm not trying to like
virtue signal that I care so much more than other people. But like when your
government takes your money and just starts slaughtering people in poor
countries compared to us, you know, that's just so profoundly wrong. What you
do to... 

 

Tucker [00:35:23] What
you do to others will be done to you, that's the physics principle. You can't
get away from that. So that's just 

 

Dave Smith [00:35:29] Well
imagine imagine like there was a guy who was a like a convicted pedophile and
he had molested a Bunch of like Iraqi children or a bunch of Iranian children
and then you were like, well, I'm gonna have him babysit my kids He only does
it over there. You know what I mean? Like you only the only thing what no, dude
He's hurt children. You can't let him anywhere near your children. Okay well
these these same monsters in government are the ones who are ruling over me and
my family in my country and The idea that you just go kill, like, you know, I
said this on Rogan's show the other day about the school that we had, where he
killed like 165 or 170 little girls, and then people give each other, those
numbers haven't been verified. That's just the claim of the Iranian government.
He goes, well, our government's not denying it. And in fact, they did an
investigation and concluded it was almost certainly us. It was a Tomahawk
missile. What's the question here? We know where this came from. The only
question left is like, who gave it coordinates or did it miss or was that
intentional, whatever. Kill a whole bunch of eight-year-old girls? I mean,
Jesus, man, is there anything more evil you could do than that? So just on a
basic human level, you know, there's like, this is horrible. 

 

Tucker [00:36:39] Anyone
who would do that. I think it was clearly accidental, but I also think having
done a lot of accidental things It's essential to apologize for it. Yeah, and
anyone who doesn't apologize for its a dangerous person Well also even do that
to them. You'll do it to my kids 

 

Dave Smith [00:36:53] Yes.
And, and it also, it stretches the definition of accidental a little bit
because even if very specifically like we were trying to hit this building, but
instead we hit this and there's a point I've been making largely through the,
um, Israel's destruction of Gaza, which is, was not that at all. They were just
leveling the place, but you go, look, man, Like you start, you start dropping
bombs on people. You start blowing things up and you know, innocent people are
going to end up dying in that. So in that sense, it is intentional and maybe
you didn't mean to hit that exact, you know? Target or kill that many people.
But like if I'm just saying, if you, if you know if you blew up a building,
you, you suspected somebody else was in, but then it turned out that there were
a bunch of little kids there. It's still a pretty profound crime. But then, of
course, on top of that, I really worry about getting trapped into a broader
war, a wider war. There is not, I don't, I'm not saying that I think this is
gonna be like Iraq or Afghanistan. I think already this is very different than
Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraq and Afghanistan did not have the ability to do what
Iran is doing right now, for one. Number two, I just don't think it's gonna be
that. I don't think. I think it would be more the Libya or Syria model than,
than the Iraq or Afghanistan model, which did require a small amount of ground
forces. So we used head chopping bin Laden nights in both of those cases, um,
and put the bin Laden lights in power in Syria. Just to be clear, our country
would not survive another Iraq or Afghanistan. There's no United States of
America coming out of that. We don't have a 20 year catastrophic ground
invasion in us. Like it will, it will bankrupt the country. It will destroy the
culture, the, the country culturally. So like, so that's a very scary thing. We
don't have, you know, in, in the launch of the global war on terrorism, we were
coming out in the 1990s. This was a different country in the 1990s, you know,
and anyone who was alive then knows this. Different people lived here. Yes.
Yes. Different people, different culture, different economic realities,
different military realities. Um, now then the other thing that I really,
really worry about with all of this is that we've never really had, we've ever
dealt with a full, like Shiite Jihad war against the West. You know, our beef
was always with the Sunni radicals. Those were the terrorists. We had to worry
about the Al-Qaeda and ISIS and stuff like that. And that was quite a big
problem. You know we had a lot of terrorist attacks in America and in Europe,
particularly ISIS inspired attacks, Al-qaeda as well. And you know, so I've
kind of called out some of these people. I'll do it again here because they're
like some of the biggest frauds. In the country, these like pretend
intellectuals like Sam Harris and Gadsad and guys like this who have spent a
career demonizing Muslims. Their entire career has been talking about what
irrational, violent people Muslims are, how awful the religion is. And look,
there's been some points that I agree with them on. If someone you know, writes
a cartoon about Muhammad, you don't have the right to kill them. Sorry, you
want to be in the West, these are our rules here. We value free speech and I
can make a cartoon about whatever the hell I want to make a cartoon about.
Okay, but if you spent your whole career arguing how violent and irrational the
Muslims are, what is killing an Ayatollah mean? You know, that's not just a political
figure. You know, you, you murder in Ayatollah and his entire family. And we've
already had a couple of terrorist attacks over here that at least seem like
there was the shooting in a Austin, Texas, that came like the day after we
launched the war and the guy was wearing like an a la Akbar teach. I'm assuming
that might be related. And so, you know, then you have this real issue of like,
Unfortunately, in the old controlled American media, and all the people like
Mark Levin and all these guys, when they talk to their audience, whatever
audience they got left, and they always love to talk about how Iran chants
death to America, which they do. And I'd like it if they stopped doing that.
It's not the nicest chant. But none of them ever even try to say, to even
approach the question of why. Why did they chant death to america why do they
hate us so much and this was a list 

 

Tucker [00:41:32] This
was a heinous for our freedom. 

 

Dave Smith [00:41:33] This
was after this is so funny that it is so Funny that that was at and funny in a
dark way, but that was actually the question I remember I was 18 when 9-eleven
happened I remember asking that question with all sincerity and that was the
national conversation That was the first question before it got answered with
they hit when 9 11 happened the average Joe six-pack American went why do they
hate us? That's how ignorant we were of our own position in the world. We
didn't even know there was a beef. You know, what are we talking, we thought
Bill Clinton was the time of peace and prosperity. That's what Americans
considered that time. The time of Peace. Iraqis did not consider that a time of
piece. Hundreds of thousands of them were getting killed due to the blockade.
Clinton's bombing campaign. It wasn't peace in Serbia. You know what I mean? It
wasn't like, but to us it was like, oh, that has little wars. They didn't
really mean anything, you know? But it wasn't. Now, All you got to do is ask
that question and I'm sure it's almost like implicit in the Mark Levin world
that well, why do they hate us? Well, I don't know, cause they're crazy,
darker, darker people and they hate you know, there are Islamo fascists. I
don't know. Um, that's what they do. They hate, but if you ask Iranians and not
the ones who are, you know paid by massage to promote wars, but like if you,
they'll tell you very quickly why they hate and the whole beef rate goes back
to 1953. We overthrew their government. We installed a dictator who they did
not like very much, who was not very kind to his political opponents, to put it
mildly. And then the other big thing that they point out all the time is in
1980 Saddam Hussein invaded Iraq. Now a lot of people from my generation
remember this because this is actually what the neocons would, would They would
often like vaguely cite this when they were trying to push the war against
Iraq. They're like, he used chemical weapons against civilians. Like, yeah,
what they leave out is that they were backing him when he did that. They
facilitated the sale of those chemical weapons to him and they backed and gave
the green light for Saddam Hussein to invade the country. And so, you know,
Iranians remember that. Like they remember that there was, I think 500 or
600,000 Iranians died. That war like they remember this very well by the way
another lesson from that war is they never surrendered even after taking losses
like that these Shiites are not playing around when it comes to matters like
that they fought and fought and fought and so anyway I say all that just to say
that it's like these things do inspire hatred and they inspire hatred for
generations and generations 

 

Tucker [00:44:12] The
effect is real. Yeah, it turns out. In 2002, a letter emerged written by Osama
bin Laden, who of course was then still alive, that he had written right after
9-11 in Kandahar before he fled to Tora Bora. And it came out a year later in
the Wall Street Journal. And I worked at CNN at the time and I read it on the
air to answer that question. What is this about? Why did he do this? And the
letter, which briefly became famous before it was pulled off the and said, you
know, I'm mad that you have troops in Saudi. Where Mecca and Medina are, and
I'm mad about your support for Israel, and that's why I did this. I wasn't
trying to justify 9-11. It can't be justified in my opinion. That's right. But
I think it's important to know why things happen, because you don't want them
to happen again. Well, a group of rabbis got together and called me an
anti-Semite, which I wasn't then and I am not now, and tried to get me fired
from my job. I'll never forget that. And Sinan called me, the corporate, the
lawyer called me. You know, Where are they all mad at you? I wasn't attacking
anybody, of course. I just think it's more than Americans don't know. I think
they've been prevented from knowing. You know actions have 

 

Dave Smith [00:45:25] Well,
that's why, you know, the, the term blowback that was coined by the CIA and
what they described it as was it's, it's not just like we do a thing and then
there's a reaction to it. It's that we do. A covert thing. And then there's. A
reaction to. And then the American people have no idea what this is even in
response to. It's just like, Whoa, out of nowhere, these guys attacked us. And,
you know, when that, but we're. 

 

Tucker [00:45:51] But
we're gonna need a police state to protect ourselves from the blowback of this
war. I mean, that's a real concern. That's the problem. Yeah, that a real
concerns. We're so vulnerable, I mean this country's wide open. All of our
infrastructure, our energy infrastructure, our food, our water, all of it's
unguarded. And the only way to protect yourselves from the inevitable blowback,
the Shia terrorism that we're going to get, of course, after killing the
Ryatola, is gonna be to turn this into a surveillance state, even more than it
is. 

 

Dave Smith [00:46:19] Yeah.
And, and of course, also on top of that, coming off of the Biden years where we
don't even know who's, who's here, we have no, like, I mean, it's just the, the
mix of these policies like the mix, of the, of having forever wars and open
borders is just gotta be the the welfare state. Yeah. I know what I mean. Like
just throw everything in and a drug war on top of that too. And a drug wars so
that drugs are illegal. There's a black market. The gangs want to smuggle the
drugs and like every single policy on top of it just makes this situation like
so much worse. Um, but yeah, you know, when that, when the Osama bin Laden's
letter to America, uh, went viral on Tik TOK before it was. Yeah, oh yeah. From
my aborted attempt to bring it to the country. Yes, to be clear, this was
written in 2002, it was like a couple years ago when it went super viral on
TikTok, and all the young leftists were like sharing it, and they were going
like, oh my God, look at this, turns out, now, of course they're leftists, so
they always think too collectively, right? And so I saw a bunch of people
going, turns out he was right, or he was the good guy. And you're like, no, no
no, that is not the takeaway from this. Like, you know, there was that one
time, the guy, uh, Hassan piker, who's like a lefty, a leftie, like a streamer.
And he had said that America deserved nine 11 and that was like what got him in
a lot of trouble for it. And it's like, but no, stop speaking like a leftist.
We're not, we're not collectively, we're individuals and the individuals who
had nothing to do with these policies. 

 

Tucker [00:47:50] Right
did not have it coming having breakfast at windows in the world and get killed.
Yeah, you deserve it 

 

Dave Smith [00:47:54] Yeah,
you don't do the whole but now but what Osama bin Laden said I don't think this
was in the letter to America I think it was in it might have been it was either
that or in his declaration of war He had two declarations of war against
America also But what he said is that civilians are fair game because you vote
for You know you vote the Bill Clinton's and the George Bush is in who
slaughter all of our children And so you're fair game now. That's the logic of
Osama Bin Laden the psychopathic, uh, you know, terrorist and that's, and the
whole point of why we're against all this shit is cause we reject that. We
don't agree with that. That's not, and you know who else used that same logic?
Every goddamn Zionist who said they elected Hamas in Gaza. Oh, by the way, they
don't even have regular elections in Gaza, they had one election 20 years ago
where Hamas won with pluralities, but that was enough for them to say to kill
their kids. 

 

Tucker [00:48:47] Hey,
yeah conscience and so 

 

Dave Smith [00:48:48] And
so so no the whole point is that no it does you don't have the right to take
vengeance on innocent people That is the standard of civilization 

 

Tucker [00:48:58] I
have said that, you know, pretty consistently for the past couple of years, and
I thought that was like just a baseline understanding that everyone in America
knew and believed. I thought that was the whole point of America. That's what
civilization is. You can't punish the innocent. And that turns out to be
incredibly anti-Semitic. I didn't know that. By the way, I've never, up until
recently, all the Jews I knew were 100% on board with that. I mean, I can just
like hear a rabbi going... You can't kill the innocent, amen, brother. Except
in this one. But now it's like all of a sudden these, you know, I don't know, I
don't think it's about any specific group. In fact, by definition it's not,
it's a human standard to which we should all be held and do our best to hold
others. You can' kill the innocence. Yeah, and also it's. 

 

Dave Smith [00:49:46] It's
not, you know, it's not about one specific group, because- Well, by definition
it's- 

 

Tucker [00:49:50] My
definition is not about one specific group, it's about all humans. 

 

Dave Smith [00:49:52] Also,
it's not it's also just not you know, and this is the problem where when when
people try to make it about the Jews And it's so weird the dynamic because you
I watch you you literally bend over Backward to say that it's about the jews as
much as possible It's not to the point and as as someone who's like a Jewish
fan of yours I find myself going like you could stop making that but you've
said it enough You know what I mean, but you do every opportunity you go. I
don't believe it's 

 

Tucker [00:50:19] It's
not because I'm afraid of Jews at all, or anybody. I'm not afraid of anybody.
It's because I think it's the standard that we have to uphold. 

 

Dave Smith [00:50:27] Well,
also everyone is insisting that that's what you're really saying. And so you
want to go, no, I'm not saying that. 

 

Tucker [00:50:32] I
just, that's why I've been defending Muslims. It's not because I'm Muslim or
taking money from Qatar, too late now, we rent their economy, but it's because
I think these are human rights bestowed by God and they apply to every person
because they're inherent in every person, because every person is created in
the image of God. That's the point I'm trying to make. 

 

Dave Smith [00:50:51] Yeah,
and I completely agree with you. I also think it's just frankly inaccurate. I
mean, it's not look I know I saw one poll today that said 60% of American Jews
Support the war in Iran, which hey, that's a lot higher than the general
population But that means 40% of them don't you know what I mean? And so like
that's like huge huge percentage of them I think a third of Jews in New York
voted for this mom Donnie guy now I'm annoyed with them for other reasons
because he's a crazy socialist but They're clearly not on board with the Israel
lobbies plan here. And then of course, as you've done a better job of exposing
than anyone I've ever seen, there's a lot of like Ted Cruz's and Mike
Huckabee's out there who, as you I think correctly pointed out our different
animals, right? Like Ted Cruz is a cynical lying politician. Mike Huckeby is
like a true believer of sorts. I'm not sure which is worse. They're both pretty
rough, and both totally humiliated themselves when they, when you interviewed
them. There's also like the point is that the Israel lobby encompasses a lot of
non-Jews. And then there's a lot Jews there. There's the max Blumenthal's and
Norman Finkelstein's and Glenn Greenwald's and on. So it's just to just say,
it's like this group now you're missing the point entirely. 

 

Tucker [00:52:08] Well,
I would say that the advocates for the war are primarily responsible for that
and speaking of blowbacks Speaking of blowback. I mean, it's hardly my job to
like defend Jewish Americans But I want to defend all Americans and I
definitely want to depend the principle that we should be judged on our own
terms Not by people who look like us or were related to like I think that's the
most important thing But I mean I do think You often you know, we're gonna try
so much isms on the rise. I agree with that And I wish it wasn't true, but that
is absolutely real and I know that I'm blamed for it 

 

Dave Smith [00:52:44] I
think you're one of the, I know people will mock me for saying this, but I
genuinely think it's true. I think, you are one of leading fighters against
anti-Semitism in the country. And I think I do what I can to be that as well. I
think if you really want to see a decrease in Jew hatred, then I think maybe it
would be good to have Jewish people saying, hey, I am totally against this. I
am not for this, but also it is, and I'm not defending collectivism of any
stripe, but it is very predictable and it is just human nature. You know, if
you have, it's that's why. 

 

Tucker [00:53:26] It's
so scary because it is human nature. That's exactly right. 

 

Dave Smith [00:53:28] If
you if they're let's say you just have a neighborhood, okay There's like a
neighborhood all things being equal or whatever and a bunch of black Teenagers
black young men are going around and mugging and beating up people Do you think
anti-black racism is going to go up go down or stay the same crime causes race?
This is right. Is that for you know, shut up. Yeah, what now? Is it fair to the
black guy who didn't mug or beat up anyone that there's no, it's not fair to
him. It's also a predictable and frankly, at times an understandable response
from someone who was the victim of getting mugged and beat up. And so if
you're, you know, if you are a, a black person who's like in the public eye, it
might be reasonable at that point to go, Hey guys, we gotta stop mugging people
and beating them up. Otherwise they're going to hate us. The way I always
looked at it, this always just came very natural to me, like this was so
obvious. I'm Jewish, I love Jewish people, I loved Jewish culture. It's who I
am, it's a big part of me. And I think some of the best things about me I got
from Jewish culture, valuing intellectual curiosity and family and hard work
and humor and a lot of things that really define who I am are very much a part
of Jewish culture- Yeah, for sure. For sure. Also just whining about things,
complaining, fetching, you know, this is all part of me. Um, it's what I do for
a living. It turned it into a pretty nice career. Uh, but, but that being said,
it's like, I just look at it. I go, okay, so we're all the stories I've heard
from my family and our history are how we were brutally oppressed here and
killed here and kicked out of here and relocated here. And then we came to
America. Now, I have grown up in the United States of America. This is where my
kids live. It's where they are gonna grow up. As you say all the time, that's
the only thing that matters to me is that my kids have the best life I can give
them. Literally the only that matters. Everything is a very distant second from
that. And I go, okay, so we're 2% of the population in America. We are, by all
objective standards, thriving. We're doing great. Jews are not an oppressed
minority in America. We're doing better than the average American is doing,
substantially. And I've never once, I mean, I don't know, I've had people on
Twitter say things to me or something like that, but there's never once been an
obstacle put in my way because I was Jewish. I never couldn't go to this school
or couldn't get this job or couldn't do anything like that and I've really had
a great life here. In fact, probably the most like anti-Semitism I've ever
dealt with is from the pro-Israel people who call me like a capo every day
because I don't support another reckless war. Capos with the Jewish and
Jewishers. Bush collaborators with the Nazis. In the ghetto. Yeah, yeah. Right.
So it was a really nasty thing to call somebody, but whatever, that's the game
we're in. So my perspective is like, okay, so you're telling me the whole world
treated us like crap. We've come here to America. Where we've been just very
successful and treated very well. My default position is to love the country
for that. Like, oh, well then we should be really grateful to this country.
That should be the attitude. Not going around lecturing people about whether
they've been to the museum about our suffering from decades ago. Like, what is
that? It just seems like such a, and look again, I'm not a lot of the critics
of Israel. Are left-wingers. I'm not coming at this from a left- wing
perspective. I am a crotchety old right- winger. I don't agree with any of
that. I sit here and say, if we, if any self-respecting conservative or self-
respecting right-winger saw any other minority group complaining about their
mistreatment in another continent, in another country, in another century,
you'd go, hey, shut up. Get over it. Pull yourself up by your boot straps.
That's like what I'm saying. And then by the way with Jews, oh, you already I
did! You pulled yourself up by your bootstrap. So like, what are we even
talking about here? Why the, and, and I don't think, I don't think like
obsessing over past trauma is always the correct answer and certainly not
insisting that everybody else suffer over or, or, um, obsess over your past
trauma. So I just always, it was always very natural to me that like I'm on
team America, I'm rooting for this country to succeed. 

 

Tucker [00:58:04] The
country that fought the Nazis, by the way, lost a lot of Americans fighting the
Nazis. Why are you lecturing me about the Nazis? My country fought them. 

 

Dave Smith [00:58:12] And,
and to almost anybody, like anybody at Fox news. Now again, maybe I talk about
like Mark Levin and Fox news and these guys like too much, like they really are
irrelevant, but I guess it's just that I'm stuck in the, you know, on the age I
am. And so to me it's still like, Hey, you're, this is Fox, but any one of them
would completely agree with me on this. If we were talking about any other
group of people, you know? If we're talking about, any other groups of people
talking about victim hood or any of that, you know if you were, if they were,
um, if there was some black, you know, uh, guy talking about how racist this
country is because of slavery, they would have made your exact point. They'd
go, we fought a war to end slavery. Hundreds of thousands of us died. But you
know what I mean? Like they would, they would 

 

Tucker [00:58:56] That
wasn't even here, so back off. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree
more. And underneath all of this, and the reason that I really do worry that
the country's gonna become openly tribal, and that leads to violence every
time, is that a lot of the same people who are upset about the rise of
anti-Semitism, which again, I think is real, I mean, I can tell it's real, and
I don't like it either, are the ones who abetted all the anti-white hate. For
so long, which is still not being addressed. The Trump administration sued
Harvard over its anti-Jewish discrimination, which is like, it's deranged. 

 

Dave Smith [00:59:34] What
a slap in the face to white people. It's unbelievable. Oh my God. 

 

Tucker [00:59:36] Well
it's unbelievable, and of course the anti-weight hate is still totally embedded
at every level of our government and in business and most famously in schools.
So that's like an attempt to hurt people on the basis of their race and no one
has said anything about it. It's just your tribe against mine, and then I'm
allowed to fight your tribe for the benefit of my tribe. Like, and it just
evolves into Rwanda. So like, I think we could defuse a lot of this if, like,
the head of the ADL would be like, I'm every bit as opposed to anti-white hate
as I am to anti Jewish hate. We could all just agree that it's all wrong, then
we decelerate. But until then, how can I take you seriously? 

 

Dave Smith [01:00:23] Yeah.
And it's, uh, and I think along with that is we just, we have to stop fighting
wars on behalf of Israel and we have to have some type of separation. I mean,
I'm not saying that like, I'm saying we should be enemies with Israel or that
we should go to war with Israel or anything like that. But the, it just, the
relationship, the special relationship between the U S and Israel is so
freaking weird. And now in this new media environment, it's been exposed. I
don't think you can put that toothpaste back in the tube. Um, it is something
that I think a lot of people were kind of happy to look the other way about for
years. 

 

Tucker [01:01:06] I
was. You came on my show, you came to Maine a couple years ago to do something
on Ukraine and Greenwald too, who I love and have known a long time. And both
of you, like had a moment where you're like, yeah, and Israel's proud. I'm
like, uh, I agree. But like, I don't want to, you know, there's, I just want to
pretend this isn't happening. It's not worth it. I don't want to be denounced
by Hubbard or whatever. I just don't wanna have the fight. 

 

Dave Smith [01:01:28] Well,
you let me or Glenn Greenwald in your door and that will not be happening. 

 

Tucker [01:01:32] I
was part of that, like, it's just not worth it. 

 

Dave Smith [01:01:37] Well,
look, even the group, in my opinion, the greatest living American hero, Ron
Paul used to, even he would kind of like try to say it in a gentle way. Like he
would go, well, let's let them fight their own fights. And we'll just kind of
be over here being non-interventionist because of course, I'm on one hand, it's
like, there's a lot of things. First of all, I don't know if people who are
listening to this show can appreciate this, but you know, this much better than
I do. But there was a time, you know, Donald Trump will kind of say this out
loud. He'll say that, you know, APEC used to totally control Congress and now
they don't control them anymore. Like he'll just say it, which is so wild. They
give me hundreds of millions of dollars and I do whatever they want. I was
like, all right, dude, you're just saying that out loud? I thought that was
like an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. Not just something the president says. 

 

Tucker [01:02:25] He
said it in the Knesset of all places. 

 

Dave Smith [01:02:29] The
thing is, right, in the old order, before there were podcasts like this, and
look, if you think about, like I used to always point to the example, because I
thought it was so interesting, about where the technology, where social media
was, is when Bill O'Reilly was the number one show at Fox News, the number show
in cable news, and at the 8 p.m. Hour, you were also the number on show at Fox
news, the number 1 show in Cable news at the eight p. M. Hour. When they fired
Bill O'reilly, Bill O'REilly went from being. One of the biggest voices in the
national conversation to being like relegated over to the sidelines. Who's
like, you know, he still has a show somewhere, but he's not like really moving
the needle at all. You got bigger than you were there. And part of that was who
you were, who your audience was. But a big part, a big part of it was that you
had, you had another platform to go right to. That was that you had, you had
another platform to go right to. 

 

Tucker [01:03:17] I
would, I would be fly fishing full time if it weren't for the technology. 

 

Dave Smith [01:03:20] So
maybe in that sense, maybe the technology ruined your life. You could have just
gone and had a happy life. They pulled you back in. But I don't know that
people appreciate how much in the old order, in the all days when getting fired
took you out of the conversation with Bill O'Reilly days or whatever before
that, getting the Israel lobby on your back would ruin you. It would absolutely
ruin you, and it didn't matter who you were. 

 

Tucker [01:03:42] You
can absolutely sleep with the makeup artist. You could not fight with the ADL.
That's right, I mean that was just. 

 

Dave Smith [01:03:47] That's
right. I mean that was just it that was it I mean and there's so much You know,
I mean whether it's the ADL of the Southern Poverty Law Center or a pack or you
know Whatever any of a the American Enterprise Institute or National Review or
the I mean the Israel lobbyist like this huge powerful thing Back then, I mean,
it didn't matter if you were Pat Buchanan, you're like, dude, I'm Pat
Buchannon. I've been in four White Houses. I won the New Hampshire primary. I
won New Hampshire Primary. I've in four different presidential at three or four
different presidential administrations, a New York Times bestseller, a fixture
in America. I mean he hosted Crossfire when Crossfire first started. You know,
doesn't matter. They could take you out. They can take Ron Paul. They could
all, and so there was for many years, almost, I feel like a leftover residue of
like, you just don't want this fight because man, is this going to get ugly and
you're going to be smeared as every vicious name in the book. But at a certain
point it was like, Oh, well, you know, you kind of can talk about these things
now. And in fact, the people who do talk about them are being rewarded by their
viewers cause that's refreshing that someone's talking about the thing you
weren't allowed to talk about. But now that that has been exposed and the
toothpaste can't be put back in the tube. It's too, it's just too much. You can
not have it. I know you talk about this a lot. You look at examples like, and
these examples are, are countless. You look a Ted Cruz saying to your face, as
he said at other places, that the reason he ran for Senate was to be Israel's
number one defender. You got Tammy Bruce saying America is the second best
country to Israel. Kind of tongue in cheek. Still a really weird thing for an
official from the administration to say. You got Donald Trump saying that
Sheldon and now Merriam Adelson give him hundreds of millions of dollars and
all they want, they come in every day asking for stuff on behalf of a foreign
country and he gives it to them. 

 

Tucker [01:05:44] Which
they love more than America. 

 

Dave Smith [01:05:45] Than
America, he said. Well, Sheldon was on tape. Have you seen this? Yes. He was on
Tape. He said his greatest regret in life is that he wore the US military
uniform rather than the IDF uniform. Now, I'm sorry, that is intolerable. From
any just sane perspective. This is nothing to do with hating Jews or even
hating any other country. If people were talking like this about Norway, we'd
be like, yo, what are you doing? This isn't Norway. This is America. And like
there's moved to Norway. Yeah. Like, fine, go ahead. But no, you can't. And
then to have, you know, people like Mike Huckabee saying that God promised
Lebanon and Saudi Arabia to Netanyahu. Like I'm sorry, but there's just no,
this is simply not how, um, public policymaker, I guess not a policymaker but a
politician, an ambassador to this country. You can't be talking this way. This
is insane. Like we don't let anybody just dictate their policy off. God told me
to do this. And then a very weird, God told him something on behalf of a
foreign country. So I think we're at a point where And this is kind of my
rejoinder to a lot of those, you know, people who call me and you anti-Semite,
I guess I'm a self-hating Jew and you're an anti-semitic because listen, man,
there is a rise of Jew hatred. And if you really do care about that, the only
way to combat that is that we got to end this, you know, like the same way we
needed a separation of church and state. So we don't fight religious wars
anymore. We need a separation of the Israel lobby and the United States of
America. 

 

Tucker [01:07:24] I
think it's tough. I think as a non-Israel hater, I don't hate anyone. I'm not
going to allow myself to hate anyone, period. But just being as honest as I can
be, you know, we're very meshed, like more than people understand.
Representatives, official and non-official of the Israeli government,
throughout the US government at every single level, state and federal, okay,
there's that, in our institutions. That would include the Pentagon and CIA are
biggest and most important. And then there's the question of like what does
that mean? For Israel, like do they just allow the United States to be like,
you know, you're just like, whatever France now, or Spain, we're going to treat
you like, an ally, but not a sibling. I think that we get punished for that.
People are afraid of Israel. That's the difference between Israel and Spain.
Everyone loves Spain. It's great. The Spanish, we can have bases there, you can
put missiles there, it's all great. But no one thinks if you pull back aid from
Spain, they're going hurt you. But everyone is afraid of being physically hurt
by Israel. Maybe they're overstating, maybe they're all anti-Semitic and
paranoid. I don't know. I can just tell you from living in DC, there is a fear
of them, real fear. And anyone who says this- 

 

Dave Smith [01:08:36] Which
is freaking lying. No, it's like saying there's a fear of the intelligence
agencies. Like that's a fact, it a fact. 

 

Tucker [01:08:41] I
think we're pretty out in the open about that now. 

 

Dave Smith [01:08:44] Yeah,
well, that's right. That's right, and it's um, you know, so if If that's the
case that it's almost like there's our leaders are just too afraid to do
something 

 

Tucker [01:08:57] And
I don't know the genesis of that fear. Like maybe, again, maybe they're all
just reading the protocols the elders design and maybe they are all
anti-Semites and they're overstating the influence of Jews or whatever. I mean,
that's totally possible. People do make crazy calculations. Maybe there really
is a physical threat, but it's, it's not arguable that U S policymakers at
every level are afraid. This is not all voluntary. 

 

Dave Smith [01:09:21] Yeah.
Well it's, it's um, there's something about like the, it, you know, I like
Megan Kelly. I think she was the one who said this. I don't know if she coined
the term, but she was first one I heard say it, but she, I think it was with
you, when she said the, uh, the Israel firsters and that was how she described
it. I was like, Oh, that's a good, that a really good term for them. Cause you
know the, the thing is that, you known, John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, like
they call it the Israel lobby. But then when you say that, a lot of people just
think you're talking about APAC, but they're not just talking about APAC.
They're talking about this whole different, all these different organizations
and individuals, the heritage foundation, Washington post, Washington Institute
for Near East policy and the, you know, all of these, these organizations, and
then all these individuals who clearly are here to, that is their number one
issue. And the thing I almost resent most about them is like, it's like, just
admit that, just admit that this is what you care about more than anything
else, Barry Weiss. Clearly you do, right? Like this, it's so because then in
effect you are like a foreign spy. You're, you're kind of like an agent for a
different government. And the point is that, you know, cause people will try to
argue the technicalities of this, but the point that all of the whole global
war on terrorism was all a bunch of Israel firsters who've pushed the
administration into that at every level. You know, this is by the way, you'll,
you'll like this just cause some people don't get this, but you'll. So David
worms are who worked for Dick Cheney, and he's the author of the Clean Break
memo. So I talk about this all the time, a lot of different podcasts on yours,
on Rogan's, I brought up the Clean break and how, that's what this whole real
strategy is. It's what the Clean Breaks morphed into, is essentially, and you
can look at this, David Wormser and Richard Pearl and Douglas Fife. Wrote the
clean break memo to Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996, first became prime minister for
his first term. And he had written a book, which is worth reading, called
Fighting Terrorism, very easy read by the way, it's a little book that Benjamin
Netnyahu had written the year before. And essentially, the break was from Oslo,
was from the peace process. The break was Yitzhak Rabin, who had now been
murdered by a Benjamin Netinyahu fan after Benjamin Netonyahu really pushed, I
mean. That's a whole other cat of worms, by the way, but I know, like, Yitzhak
Rabin's wife, I believe, still blames Benjamin Netanyahu for his death. 

 

Tucker [01:11:35] Many
in Israel do. And now there's a lobbying campaign to get the murderer out of
prison. 

 

Dave Smith [01:11:41] Well
they, so I mean they were, he was given anti-Rabbin like marches and they were
holding coffins before he died. Like they were like implying like someone
should kill this guy. Because he had said, not that he was really ever going to
do this, but he had said we got to find a two state solution. We got to give
the Palestinians their own state and we'll start working toward that. Now the
clean break was the neoconservatives brilliant idea. The Israel firsters here
that well no, no, see you got this all wrong. You think you need to make peace
with the Palestinians because that's the only way that you'll have, you'll
normalize relations with the broader Arab world. But no, no, we just gotta go
topple the broader Arab world and overthrow all those governments. And then you
never have to make peace with Palestinians, okay? So it's essentially a
blueprint for greater Israel. And this was their whole strategy, pre 911. 

 

Tucker [01:12:25] For
regional hegemony. It's not just about controlling the West Bank, it's about
controlling 

 

Dave Smith [01:12:31] the
Middle East. That's right, that's right. And so, now because we live in this
crazy world we live now, David Wormser did a podcast where he responded to me.
Now, from my perspective, I'm little old me, some stand-up comedian who just
talks about all this stuff. This is David Wermser, this is the guy who's the
author of the Clean Break Memo. But to the new internet world, He has like 300
followers on Twitter. Nobody saw this. Nobody knows about it. But so David
words, and he's there to debunk my interpretation of the clean break memo. This
is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. And so the host brings them on
to be like, Oh, there's Dave Smith guys out here saying that all these wars
were about Israel and blah, blah, and this is ridiculous. Right? So why don't
you just tell them that this is all not true. And his response was he just goes
into like a monolog about how Israel is the cradle of civilization and that all
of Western civilization is downstream from Israel and that we always must
protect. So anyway, in the attempt to prove me wrong, he just totally exposes
that this is the mentality that all these guys have. So if Mike Huckabee
supports a war for Israel, in his mind, that's not selling out your country for
another country. This is God's. You know what I mean like this so they're all
so it's like like the fish doesn't know he's in water Like they don't even
realize they're the Israel lobby. They go. What are you talking? So this is
what? 

 

Tucker [01:14:00] So
this is what Jeff Sachs said to me, Jeff Sach's who's often attacked, Jeff
Sachs is really smart and I think Jeff Sach is a decent guy and we don't agree
on everything but like he's a he's an honest guy like he just says so I say to
him you've been watching this all these years what do you think this is about
why does this tiny country have so much control over our giant continent-sized
country and he said well you know a lot of contributions there are threats or
questions with the Kennedy assassination like that they're willing to use force
and assassinations to get what they want He goes, but I don't think that... I
don't think that explains it. I don't think either one of those bribery or
threats, a characteristic, I don't think that actually is the whole picture.
There's a spell of some kind. There's like a supernatural quality to this. Good
people, like I don's think Mike Huckabee is like in favor of genocide. I just
don't that. Pretty nice guy, very nice guy actually. But he believes with this
fervor that suggests that he's not thinking clearly. Like there's another
quality here. And do you know what I'm talking about? 

 

Dave Smith [01:14:57] Yeah,
no one and I 

 

Tucker [01:14:58] And
I think Jeff Sachs is a pretty secular guy, by the way. I don't know, but
Jeff's not a religious extremist, I can say that. For sure. Right, okay. 

 

Dave Smith [01:15:05] Yeah,
but they but everyone recognizes like I told you last there's no such thing as
atheist They think they're our atheist, but no one no one really is an atheist
No, I but I wasn't but I thought I was but you never really are it's not like
you can't you were well Because I would just say I don't really believe in any
of that And I don't think that that's real But of course like as I told the
story last time I was here then when my daughter is born and I'm worried About
her life. I immediately find and it's like I always knew I always that was
always in there on some level So I remember one time here in this debate and I
wish I could remember who it was, but it was like a theist atheist debate. And
it might have been Christopher Hitchens or something like, I don't know, maybe
not. But it was one of those like, does God exist debates. And so the guy
arguing that God does exist said something about how there are spiritual forces
in the world and blah, blah, blah, and there are evil spirits, he said. There
are evil spirit. And then the atheist guy goes, he goes, look, like. We all
know that there is depression and there's this and there is this. We all that
there's dark forces in the world, but you don't need a supernatural
explanation. I'm like, did you just say dark forces? Like dark forces. I mean,
what is that? You're saying the same thing in different language, man. Like
it's just like, there's actually no gap here between anyway. Um, but so I do
think there's a spiritual component to all of this. 

 

Tucker [01:16:27] Don't
want to be the kind of person who imputes the worst motives to my opponents,
okay? But I am, because most people are, like, why is this person doing
something that's insane, doesn't make sense, it's irrational? Getting paid.
Like, that's always the first explanation that people come to, and I have
myself thought that. But then, if you know someone really well, I don't know,
I'm not intimate with Huckabee, but I've known him for so many, you know, 30
years, more than. It's like, I don't think Huckaby, you, know, he's into money,
I get it, but I don't think he's like... Totally motivated by greed, I just
don't believe that. 

 

Dave Smith [01:16:59] No,
I think there's, well look, I don't think he's evil, but he's defending evil.
So what is that? I think a few things can be true at the same time, right? So
it could, it can be that you're under a spell, that there's a spiritual aspect
to it. And then it can also be that there are soft incentives for you to
continue being under that spell, right. And so the, you know, the history of,
of Jewish influence, Israeli influence, I mean, look, obviously, Much of this
goes back to the fact that Jews dominated finance for many years, and part of
this was because Christians weren't allowed to lend money, credit, right? But
there is now, there is a form, obviously, of like abusive usury, right, there
are loan sharks out there. Some of them are even credit card companies that
will charge you like 30% interest or 29.9, whatever they're allowed to do on,
you know, which is like a crazy the interest rate of they kind of prey on
desperate people. Now they're not necessarily like even the loan shark or the
credit card companies, they're just kind of benefiting off your desperation.
Cause it's not like if the credit card company wasn't there, it's like, Oh, now
everything's okay. The America, the reason they're putting necessities on the
credit cards to begin with is because other conditions have, you know, led them
to this desperate place. Totally. But, but the problem. So then you had for
much of Christendom, right? It's completely banned to lend money at any
interest. Which is that I do not think is abusive to have any interest rate on
your money because that's actually a very necessary part of an economy. There
are people who have a very good idea but don't have any capital. And then
there's people sitting with capital and they go, well look, I can't just give
this to you because if you lose it, then I just lose my money and if you pay me
back, all I've gotten is that get my money later rather than having it right
now. Have 

 

Tucker [01:18:51] Also,
if you have my money, then I can't use it for whatever thing I want to build.
So there's a cost to me to lending you my money. 

 

Dave Smith [01:18:57] However,
if I go, Hey, I'll lend this to you, but you pay me back a little bit of
interest. This is, this actually is really facilitates economic growth because,
you know, or just good businesses being created because like, oh yeah, the guy
with a good idea, but with no capital now can, so anyway, so, so Jewish bankers
ended up kind of filling this void. And then you had very powerful Jewish
groups who became very, very wealthy in banking and yada, yada. A lot of things
later, banking got very, very corrupt. But again, it's important to keep in
mind this wasn't most Jews. Most Jews were living in poverty. This was, but
like the Balfour declaration is written to the Rothschilds, right? Like it's
not the creation of Israel was at least part, they had international finance
backing them. And so that's also true in America that much of the, uh, the
largest banking, uh institutions had some Jewish influence. Um, it's also the
case that after the creation. Of the state of Israel there, you have the
massage, right. Or you have Israeli intelligence. Now, Jews are smart, not like
that much smarter than everybody else, but they're a pretty smart group. And
then the Mossad had an advantage over every other intelligence organization
that would really be a dream for any intelligence organization. But the Mossade
had a diaspora of people all spread out in the world that were Jewish, right?
And so, and also there was this wide cultural belief amongst Jews that the
Holocaust, is what gave birth to the state of Israel and that the state of
Israel is the guarantor of another holocaust not happening. And so you could
very, like imagine the CIA had that. Imagine you just had little Americans in
every single country, you know, little groups of Americans, maybe not every
single country, but you had pockets of them in lots of different places. And
they really passionately believed that the existence of the United States of
America was the most important thing in the world. How, what an advantage for
them. Go around, hey, find any American somewhere. You want to serve your
country? You want do that? And so... Between finance, between the, the Mossad.
And then the, when the, the neo conservatives who really were not old money
when they first came into it, right? Like if you know the first generation of
neo conservatives, they were, they were having their debates at city college,
not at Harvard. You know what I mean? Like they were- Literally city college.
Yes, these were, these were middle-class. Guys, they weren't the Rockefeller
guys or the Morgan guys. They weren't at the council on foreign relations, but
what they did was they went and they made their relationships with the military
industrial complex themselves. And a lot of this was, you know, the problem is
that you create this empire. You create this military industrial, complex, this
big government scheme, and then it's right for someone to take it over. And if
you go look at like every last one of those bill crystal think tanks, Bill
Kristol needs to have 16 think tanks. He doesn't have a thought in his head,
but never got all of it literally never Right in New York. Yeah, like his dad
was smart for all his problems. Bill Kristols never smart He was revered as the
smart guy never never said anything Thanks Mark. 

 

Tucker [01:22:01] Dan
Quill's brain. 

 

Dave Smith [01:22:02] Yeah,
literally. Um, but every last one of those think tanks is funded by Lockheed
Martin or, you know, Raytheon or whatever. So it's like, the thing is that a
lot of times in government It's, it's a very different thing to be like swim
with the current than to swim against the current. You know, there's no such
thing as the Fabian libertarian. You don't, you know, you have, you might have
some hardcore communists and then you have like an AOC who's like, I want
incrementally more government. You can't get incrementally less government
because there's, no, that's asking the government to have less power. Now, if
you're the neoconservatives and you come around with like, Hey, I've got a plan
to fight forever wars. You know, I've got a plan to go topple all of these
different countries, you're going to get some money from weapons companies. And
so anyway, just saying. 

 

Tucker [01:22:55] How
is this different from fascism? I thought that's what fascism was. I mean,
leaving aside the anti-Semitic component of the Nazis, which was a big
component, but the idea of fascism, that the state, you know, merges with the
industrial powers of the private sector. For the private sector. 

 

Dave Smith [01:23:13] Yeah,
this is what it is. And also just swap out the Jew hatred and make it Muslim
hatred, or make it German hatred, or Russian hatred, or whatever it is, you
know, they always pick another thing to some ethnic hatred. So yeah, it's not,
but that's exactly right. Fascism won. Man, it so ironic, the same sometimes
when you really lose, you know they could say on paper, and I'm sure there's
some historian professor who would say, no, like capitalism and communism won
the Second World War and fascism was defeated. What arose out of it was the
fascist model, for everybody, essentially, right? Which is, and again, fascism
is kind of ill-defined. 

 

Tucker [01:23:49] Kind
of will do. 

 

Dave Smith [01:23:50] Yeah,
well, but broadly speaking, I mean, what are we talking about? They're FDR, um,
and, and the entire progressive movement, the original progressive movement.
This is what they were advocating for, right? It's like it's, we, we got to get
away from laissez-faire free markets. We're not going total communist, but we
need a strong, powerful state, powerful enough to regulate the economy and the
country. And then also fight wars abroad. I mean. Without majority support.
Yeah. I just don't really see what, and we can cling to this idea of democracy,
which is always really an illusion. You know, it's never really true. It
doesn't really matter. In fact, there was a study done. I want to say this was
at Princeton from remembering correctly. This was like maybe 15, 20 years ago,
but they did a study where they said they just concluded that we're an
oligarchy, not a democracy. And they literally just went through it empirically
and we're like, The American people's feeling has no impact on no barriers
whatsoever. You could say we have elections and if you really don't like George
W. Bush, you can vote for Barack Obama instead of John McCain. Um, but what'd
you vote for him for? Cause he said he'd close Guantanamo Bay and end the wars.
Guantana Bay is still open today and we're on the seventh war of Wesley Clark,
seven wars in five countries. None of that stopped. What did we get during
Obama? We got a massive escalation in Afghanistan. We got wars in Libya, in
Syria, in Yemen, drone bombing campaigns in Pakistan, continued the war in
Iraq, ended the war in Iraq then re-invaded Iraq when his pet ISIS left over
from the war in Syria came back. 

 

Tucker [01:25:28] So
I think you're describing the upside of all of this. Again, I haven't slept
eight hours in a month. I'm so distressed. I'm in no sense for this. I argued
against it, obviously. But it's happening. And this is the end of the empire as
we knew it. Hopefully, it'll shrink back into something manageable that serves
our interests. But who knows what will happen. But we're definitely not going
back to where we were a month ago. We know that. So what are the upsides? Well,
one upside is. You might wind up at some point with presidents who want to run
the United States. No president wants to run United States because why would
you want to run the US when you can run the world? By the way, you don't know
the people you manage when you run the World. They don't like come to your
office and complain about your treatment of them. It's like there's no cost.
It's all upside. You're just, you're the king of the world. I don't think
future presidents will have that option. And so maybe we'll get people like,
you know, LaGuardia airport smells. The Miami airport is like an atrocity.
Maybe we should fix that. 

 

Dave Smith [01:26:26] You
think? Yeah. Yeah. Well, 

 

Tucker [01:26:27] Well,
this will cause like a reorientation 

 

Dave Smith [01:26:31] back
to what matters, which is our country. Yeah, quite possibly. And, and that's
the, yeah, that's really the best case scenario. And, you know, like I try to,
well, I look at models like, you know, when the Soviet Union collapsed. I
remember there was a, so Murray Rothbard talks about this in a speech once.
Murray Rothbart, for people who don't know, is, in my opinion, like the most
brilliant political theorist of the 20th century. He's a genius, and he was,
you know, of course, he ended up supporting Pat Buchanan in 1992. He was an
economist and a historian and a philosopher, and so he was talking about, I
guess this was like the speech he gave shortly after the collapse of the Soviet
Union, And he was talking about how he had seen. Like a video of a Chinese
family under Chinese communism at the time. I guess maybe this was back, he was
talking about from like before Mao Tse-Tung died. And he said that the
interviewer asked him questions, they were just talking about how much they loved
the regime and how he said, would you rather your kids had a, it was something
like would you rather your kid had a prosperous life or were loyal servants of
the regime and had a very difficult life? And he says, loyal servants of the
regime in a very difficult life, no problem. And so Murray Rothbard said he
watched this and he was like, my God, I mean, this is just so horrible. Like,
they've actually done it. They've created the communist man and destroyed the
human soul. And then he's talking to his buddy who's another genius who went to
China a lot and was like a China expert. And he goes, no, that's what they say
when the cameras are there. That's all that is. It's like, that doesn't believe
that. You know what I mean? They just know this is on tape. You can't say
anything else, and so that's what you say, and then they go about their day not
really caring what the regime says. And so like when the Soviet Union
collapsed, um, from all like I've read about it, like that was essentially the
state of the Soviet Union was like, no one believed the government anymore.
They just all knew they were liars. They all knew this was bullshit and they
were really actually, we're in the Brezhnev era here. And so now of course the
Warhawks and the neoconservatives, they always viewed, uh, us, luring the
Soviets into Afghanistan and getting them bogged down there fighting the the
Mujahideen and Afghanistan including the foreign Arab Mujahidine and Osama bin
Laden who we were supporting But they always viewed this as a great success
because it brought down the Soviet Union And I'm I don't know enough about what
factor led to watch. I mean communism is not an effective economic system and
But I'm sure the war did hurt them a lot. I know how costly wars can be and how
much they can degrade our country. I know wars in Afghanistan can de grade your
country. So I'm that was part of that. But my point is that it wasn't like
America went in and toppled the USSR, right? Like they collapsed on their own,
partly as a result of fighting foreign wars and partly as result of just
government lying and terrible economic policies. But at a certain point, Like
the soldiers just weren't willing to fire. You know, like there, there were
attempted, uh, um, counter coups. Yeah. Yes. There were attempted coups in the
past where they did fire and they were like, no, you're not leaving the Soviet
union. But by this point in 89 or whatever it was, as the people started rising
up, they were like, we're just not, we're not doing this anymore. They themselves
don't believe it anymore. The government and, and so I guess it's a long way to
get to what I'm saying, but like at a certain point we might just, we might hit
a point where like The people just aren't believing this anymore. The law
enforcement, whether military or police, just aren't gonna crack down on the
American people in that way, and that would maybe lead to a rise of a real
president who actually ran the country. And I don't know, I think, if I'm not
mistaken, I believe in, when there was like German reunification, they didn't,
from what I understand, I don't think they didn't really punish like the people
in the communist government. They kept them on their pensions. Absolutely. They
went kind of, and I feel like we almost need something like that. I know Curtis
Yarvon's talked about this a bit, but something where it's like, look, man, I
think there are some people at the absolute top who need to be criminally
prosecuted, but like we got to find a transition from here to there. Like if
we're, if we are buying off bureaucrats, that would be cheaper than continuing
this system. You know what I mean? Like. There's almost something where if a
president could come up and say like, Hey, all you guys working in the
intelligence agencies who were working to undermine presidents, you all have
amnesty, but you got to pack up and go home right now. Like that's it. In a
weird way, we need, as you said, we need an actual president who's actually
running the country. 

 

Tucker [01:31:03] And
who can restore peace here? I mean, I think older Americans believe their
country is more united and cohesive than it really is. You've got an entire
generation of people who weren't born here, whose parents weren't born here who
came here on the promise that can't be fulfilled, which is that, you know, of a
better life economically. And I think it's gonna be tough to make good on that
promise, honestly. And so what do you do with that? What do you with dashed
expectations at scale? Millions of people who kind of thought they were getting
something and didn't get it. A country where half of all households get a
government check. Half of all household. 

 

Dave Smith [01:31:41] So
and the average age of the first time homeowner, the first time home owner is
40. 

 

Tucker [01:31:47] Exactly.
So you've got a lot of issues here and all of our attention is there. It's in
the Persian Gulf or China or Venezuela or wherever, but once you readjust and
start thinking about how does this country deal with dashed expectations and
remain coherent, how does it prevent the rise of like a truly dangerous
demagogue? 

 

Dave Smith [01:32:08] Well,
also it's not like the two, it's just that we're focused over there and so
we're not taking care of what's going on here. It's the focus over there is
destroying over here. As it always does. Okay. So the angriest I've ever been
at you was when you said that, uh, you said Lindsey Graham's views are a war
everywhere and Austrian economics at home. And I was like, no, no. But look, I
mean, cause the, and it's, not just, I don't care about just like the term, but
it's it's the. The idea is that, essentially what's going on... 

 

Tucker [01:32:41] Monopoly
capital 

 

Dave Smith [01:32:42] Yes,
yes, but the opposite of Austrian economics, big government, central banking,
record high government spending every single year. And so what happens
essentially is, and this is also why I'm so furious at this administration over
this stuff, and I don't know, you're in more of a, you are in a tougher
position than I am where you were the guy in Trump's ear trying to convince him
not to do this or one of the guys who got to meet with him and convince him to
not do this. 

 

Tucker [01:33:10] I
think the only one 

 

Dave Smith [01:33:11] Yeah,
I think so. Well, the last one is no longer with us. Um, so, uh, you know,
Yeah. Yeah. So, um, but you know, so the thing is like me, I, like I'm no good
at being a political strategist. Like I said, I'm just good at being a
podcaster. A podcast. 

 

Tucker [01:33:28] A
flash of rage that was so intense. I lost my vision. 

 

Dave Smith [01:33:32] Yeah,
no, I understand. Well, it's worth it. There's some things worth being that
angry over. Um, but so, you know, I kind of go, I don't know political strategy
stuff, but I go, I think you should just like, you try your best to stay being
able to, at least he has one person who's telling them to do this. But the
thing is that I'm just not capable of doing that. And I'm not close to the
administration. So I'm just like red behind the eyes furious. But one of the
big things I'm furious about is that their hand in this country, right back
over to the Democrats who really are every bit the threat that we were making
them out to be over the last decade. And they're going to come in more
authoritarian and more angry because they are furious that we disobeyed them
and put Donald Trump back in the White House. There's all time and like all
their plan. I mean, look, we saw what they did through COVID. We saw what the
did with tech censorship and I don't want to find out what a central bank digital
currency looks like and what carbon, you know, social credit scores look like.
And The thing is that what look at you watch the Democrats as they're winning
now, right? Like you could look at the races when mom, mom Donnie one in New
York, when the new governor, uh, one in new Jersey, the new Governor in
Virginia, there had been a couple of races in Texas where they were like
outperform and what they should be performing in Texas. Every last one of them
is running on what they now call unaffordability. It's like they just made up a
new term. Because they, and literally none of them, I don't, I really don't
think if I had one of them sitting where you're sitting right here and I was
grilling them and I could go, what is unaffordability? I don't think one of em
has an answer. I don't even think they know the term currency debasement, I
dont even think that's what it is. 

 

Tucker [01:35:06] I
don't even think they know what it is human rights at all. Oh, no, no here in
Virginia, which was conservative or normal 20 minutes ago They bring in some
guy literally born in India from another country To lead the effort to
confiscate people's guns and no more self-defense in the state. This just
happened Yeah, I mean it was like not long. I mean a year ago. They had a
Republican governor So it's an evenly not much of one but it's still it's a
evenly divided state the second they take power You can't defend yourself And
just to humiliate you, to bring some guy from another country to lecture you
about your country where your family was born. 

 

Dave Smith [01:35:40] Born,
you don't have the right to have a gun. Yep. No, that's it's such an, such an
outrage. I mean, it's just like, unbelievable. But look, but the thing is that
running on unaffordability is winning for them, obviously, because that is the
issue right now. They don't understand that unaffordable means price inflation.
It means that you've debased your currency, right? And so this is, so the thing
now we're handing them this thing to run on while, while Donald Trump is
talking about You know working with the ayatollah about the Strait of Hormuz or
whatever your local Democrat is going Hey, why are your grocery prices so high?
Why is that by the way all the price inflation from the job, but you know the
way this stuff works It's cumulative so Donald Trump. We live in an
inflationary economy because of the central bank. It doesn't matter what
there's a well 

 

Tucker [01:36:26] They're
they will ation means if 

 

Dave Smith [01:36:28] or
the money supply. Right, because they will, no matter what, print enough money
so that we don't fall into a deflationary economy. They're going to do that and
they're not even printing the money. They're just typing into a computer these
days. So they can get ahead of it. And so Donald Trump might brag that the CPI
is only at 2% and not at 9% where Joe Biden was. But for every regular
American. We lived through all of those price increases and now it's just 2%
more expensive than it was under Joe Biden. So you haven't been helped any, the
prices aren't going down. They're just going up at a slower rate. It's like a,
I think it was Michael Malice who, uh, had the phrase where he goes when they
go, uh they go. Uh, we cut inflation in half and they go it's literally on the
level of if you knew somebody who gained a hundred pounds in a year. And then
the next year they gained 50 pounds and they'd go, I'm getting thinner. And
you're like, no, you are not. You are getting fatter, sir. Like the goal is not
to slow down how much weight you put on. Um, but the, it really does just come
down to this, right? Is that we have a government that we cannot afford. We
cannot even come close to affording the size of government we have because it's
the biggest government in human history. It's the big organization in human as
you often point out. And that organization is parasitical in nature. It gets
its money from taking that money from expropriating that money from the
American people, but you can't tax them enough and you can borrow enough. And
so we have to print the money and so we have to the money because we can't
afford the size of government. And so then that makes the price of everything
go up and up and up. And so essentially the point I'm getting at, and this is
why I just, I, I just point out that to say it's Austrian economics is gets it
because what guys like memedani can come in and do now is say, Hey, look,
everything's so unaffordable. And you know what the answer to that is? A government
program, more, more government, more free busses and, and government
supermarkets and on the surface, that kind of probably sounds reasonable to
some people. But the thing is that we're here because government is too big.
That's what's got us to this place. And so like, I think it's important. To
just like point that out to people, that it's like, no, this is the thing, the
thing is that we cannot afford, here's the real hard honest truth that
Americans don't wanna hear, or at least maybe the first part they wanna hear.
People are okay with me saying this. We can't afford the world empire. We can
afford it. We don't have the money for it. We, the only, we're pretending we
have it. We're just devaluing our currency and therefore by the way, destroying
young people's lives. Now there's days, I know a bunch of young people like in
my family and friends who are literally like good people go to work every day,
make 70 K a year. And they're like, how am I going to settle down and start a
family, dude? I mean like the average house around me is going for 800 grand to
make 70 grand a year that that math simply does not work. And this is not I'm
not saying the bum on welfare. I'm saying like the young man who's getting up
and going to work every day. And we can't, so we cannot afford this empire. And
the other thing is, which no one, including Republicans ever wants to say, we
also can't afford the entitlement programs. No way. And they're insane. They're
the most indefensible thing in the world. I mean, leaving aside Medicaid for a
second. But Social Security and Medicare are from a different time, from a
difference country that are totally indefensible. They were indefensable then,
but they're really indefesable now. 

 

Tucker [01:39:52] Or
disability. 

 

Dave Smith [01:39:52] Yeah,
you're telling me you have a wealth transfer program from a poorer group to a
richer group? I'm sorry. The seniors aren't the ones who need the help right
now for sure. It's the young people. And I think that I would love if some
politician, um, I think Ron Paul's the only one I've ever seen. I'm sure Massey
would would agree with me if I said this to him, but I wish somebody would just
run on that. I'm like, yeah, that's, you know, they used to say that's the
third rail of politics. Like why? Cause boomers just need to get everything.
Everything has to be rigged in favor of them. I mean, I'm, sorry, like the
thing is You kind of have these like abstract political debates sometimes,
which I'm a nerd for this stuff. I really like them. But so you'd have like,
uh, you know, you'd, you have like a Keynesian debate, a Chicago school guy, or
you'd had a socialist debate, uh a free market guy. And like the free market,
guy would argue that, you know. There's a better allocation of resources in a
free Market. And then the socialist would argue, that some people fall behind.
And so you need redistributive policies to take from the wealthy to give to the
people have fallen behind. But who argues that you should have a redistributive
policy from the poor to the rich. That's the whole United States of America.
That's all of central banking. That's, all of government spending. All it is is
they take money from the working people and they give it to millionaires. Go
look at any of the suburbs of Washington, DC. None of them make anything.
They're all in $3 million houses, because government spending is north of $7
trillion. Of course. 

 

Tucker [01:41:27] Unfortunately,
it's getting to the point where that kind of is our economy. Yeah, yeah. So
you'd really need to reorder things on the beginning with the foundations.
Yeah, well. But two good things are happening. One, the empire is by necessity
shrinking, and so that's a cost savings, and that's reorientation back where
the attention belongs, which is here, and two, you have the baby boom going
away, which is 1946, 1964, so people born in the middle at 1956 are now 70. So
they'll be 80 in 10 years. So that generation, clearly, I think everyone
agrees, not everyone in it, but as a generation destroyed the country. 

 

Dave Smith [01:42:06] Oh,
yeah, just the words and has no in the country with some notable exceptions. Of
course my mom included. She's cool 

 

Tucker [01:42:13] Oh
many, many notable exceptions. I know a million baby boomers, not a million,
but I've met baby boomer's I like. 

 

Dave Smith [01:42:18] Well,
I just couldn't. I mean, the thing about it, there's a Jeff Dice is really,
really a brilliant guy. He was the, he ran the Mises Institute for years. He's
over at monetary metals now, but he's a really, really brilliant guy, he had
this speech one time where he was talking about the boomers and like the
evolution of the generation and what they believed at the time. And it's, so it
is just the most self-absorbed selfish generation ever. I mean, they literally,
their slogan was don't trust anyone over 30 until they turned 30. Exactly. And
then he does, like Jeff Dice, like went through the whole thing. I'm, I don't
remember all of it, but then by the end, they were the ones pushing a COVID
like they started out as the don't trust anyone. Over 30. And then they said
shut down the schools so that I don't get sick, like take from my
grandchildren's generation so that. I am protected. And 

 

Tucker [01:43:08] But
the dumbest too, I mean the thing about, narcissism is the core sin, like
that's their main problem is they're all about themselves. The thing you notice
about people who are all about themself is how unwise and badly informed they
are because they don't pay attention to other people, therefore they never
learn. Therefore, and I've noticed this since I was a child because these were
my teachers, the baby boom, they'll fall for anything. They're the most easily
manipulated. People who've ever lived in this country, they are the most
dominated by their herd instinct. All the kids are wearing masks, all the kids
taking the shots, all the kid are going into fights. Whatever all the other
people are doing, they will do. They're the Mickey Mouse Club generation. They
are truly without creative impulse. They're just not impressive, in addition to
being super annoying, one of the least attractive generations. Like there's a
lot about them that we can, the least attached to their own children. You've
got two houses, but your kids have no house? How does that work? 

 

Dave Smith [01:44:01] Oh
yeah, the generation of no fault divorce, the generation I gotta be me, I gotta
pursue my own happiness when you got little kids. But you is not that
interesting. Yeah. But the more you think. 

 

Tucker [01:44:11] About
you the dumber you get. That's just what I just always know. 

 

Dave Smith [01:44:14] It's
like one of the most profound ironies in life, like this kind of
counterintuitive thing where like, if you're only concerned with yourself,
yourself is going to suffer for that, you know? It's really true, and you watch
this all the time with people who really have really bad depression and are
just miserable, and they're constantly talking about their mood today. It's,
like, hey, step number one, stop thinking about your mood. Your mood is not
that important. Here's step number one. Start thinking about other people. How
about this? Try doing something productive for someone else other than yourself
and don't think about your mood once while you're doing it. And then, you know,
I'll tell you, I've, you, you know I've been on this earth for about 43 years
and I haven't learned that much. I've got a few things. I've never been
anywhere near as happy since I got married and had kids. Like once my life
became about a family and not just about me. You know what I mean? And I think
I was in this generation that was- Did you expect that? No man, I mean I don't
know. I always thought before I met my wife it was always to me like everything
in my mind was like professional success. You know, like that was what I wanted
to be a successful comedian. And I wanted, I wanted it to talk about politics
and all of this stuff. And I want it. I always wanted that. And, um, you know,
it's weird now cause I've kind of like, I've kinda gotten everything. I really
wanted in all those years. And it's, it's nice. Don't get me wrong. I really
loved my career. I love what I do. I loved this. I love doing shows with you
and it's great, but like it's so unimportant compared to family. I mean, you
know? Like it's just not even. It's not the older you get, the more you realize
it's like, that's all that really matters. All that really matter are your,
your wife, your children, the close friends that you have around you, like the
good people in your life, connection to other people, connection to God. That's
all. That really matters in life. All the rest of it is kind of just part of
the journey and part of the thing, but, um, yeah, you do your best. 

 

Tucker [01:46:16] Knowing
you're probably not gonna move the ball that far. 

 

Dave Smith [01:46:19] Yeah.
Well, you know, I read this, um, there was this really great book by, um. I
believe the author's name. I, I, you, know, I don't know if I've ever actually
heard it pronounced. I've just read it, but it's like a gene twangay or twang
or something. Now I don't know about her. I think she was on Bill Mars show
recently and she said one thing that I thought was really stupid and I turned
it off cause I was like, I really liked her book. I just don't want to, I don't
want to know. You know how you feel sometimes you're like, I didn't want her,
don't. But she wrote this book called, um I think it was called the me
generation. Generation me something like that. It was really great I thought it
was a really really good book and it was kind of about my generation who was
raised by the boomers and You know the way I was raised and again, I'm not not
a really great mother She's really great and instilled a lot of really good
things in me. This was bigger than her This was just the culture, but we were
raised and I didn't think it was so unique at the time but I was really kind of
a a child of the you know, a child of the unipolar moment, I guess you could
say. Uh, and then, uh, a teenager, a young adult. 

 

Tucker [01:47:19] Post-Berlin
Wall 

 

Dave Smith [01:47:20] Yeah,
yeah, well I mean I was I remember watching it Watching the Berlin Wall come
down I was at my grandfather's house and my grandfather as I told you before
was from Germany And I just my only memory of it was I was a little guy was
born in 83 So I guess I would have been six years old when this happens I'm a
little kid and I just remember I was being a little kids and probably being
loud in the living room or something or walked in front of the TV And I
remember he snapped at me. I went shh And I I just remembered being like oh 

 

Tucker [01:47:46] How
old was your grandfather when he left Germany? 

 

Dave Smith [01:47:49] He
would have been, I wanna say, like 15, maybe? Something like that. Oh wow, so
old enough to remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, old enough to remember some
really vicious things. He got out in 1938. But, so, anyway, so I just remember
like, oh, this is really serious to Grandpa, what's happening, and it was the
Berlin Wall being coming down. Yeah, it was a big deal to him. I'm not sure he
liked it that much. I think he was a little concerned about German
reunification. Many were. You know, as you could imagine. Um, but Uh, it turned
out to be a good thing. Uh, but anyway, so, you know, I was, I kind of grew up
in that time in the eighties and the nineties and there was, we didn't have
things that I think almost every other generation had. Like we weren't raised
with like God chivalry nation country. You know, there wasn't this, it was
like, you go to school and, you know, get your homework done so no one's mad at
you and then you can go play basketball outside or there's a new video game ad.
It was let's, let's hang out with our friends and have fun. There wasn't like
this, this, this like purpose, you know, like put into your life, which most
people have in most of human history, even if it's just culture, yeah, culture,
religious views, you know, important things. And, uh, I think there were a lot
of people in, in my generation were like that, that it was almost like, again,
Like we said before, you can't. You can't take God out of the equation because
something else just becomes God. And in a way like, I know I've heard you say
this before too, but it's so true. It's like the desire to worship is so
hardwired into the DNA of the human soul that you just can't, you can say
you're an atheist if you want to, but then like I'll find out what your
religion is pretty quickly. And oftentimes it just becomes yourself. You know,
when you don't have other things, it becomes like, well let me have fun, let me
go get this, but that is, like I said, 43 years, I haven't learned much in
life. One thing I have learned for certain is that if your highest goal in life
is your own pleasure, you will be a miserable, miserable human being. Yeah,
well I've learned that, I've learn that too. 

 

Tucker [01:49:59] So
as you look around at 43, among people you know who are your age grew up in the
same world you grew up, how many are thinking about the existence of God right
now? 

 

Dave Smith [01:50:08] I
think a lot more than ever were as religious people growing up. Yeah. I mean, I
knew, I know some, um, but it was very few and far between like that were
really like religious or talked about it or what, you know, like I knew. Um,
you. Know, even like I, I went to a like Hebrew school, but I went for like a
year to like, my mom wanted me to be bar mitzvah, but it wasn't really like a
deep religious conviction. It was more like, this is what our people have
always done, you know, and like out of respect to your father and your father's
father and your Father's father's Father, you know, like, I'm like, I can kind
of understand that. And so I went, um, but it was like a reformed, you know,
uh, temple where I went there. And I remember even the rabbi, like you know
like some of the kids would be like, well, do you believe in God? And he's
like, yeah, you know, everything that's good is God and everything, you know,
it was just totally like, like Jewish, you know, essentially atheism and 

 

Tucker [01:51:00] around
so many people like that. 

 

Dave Smith [01:51:01] Yeah.
So it was just, you know, there was, there was just a lot of that. And I, I
don't, you know, I certainly think that one of the things I really focus on as
a father and I have little kids, so, but I will focus on this more over the
years is like instilling the idea of purpose and doing the idea of like God and
not just God, but like what that represents that, like You're, you know, you're
here, we're all here in this life together. This life is a little bit of a
mystery. We don't know everything about it. 

 

Tucker [01:51:32] That's
exactly right. 

 

Dave Smith [01:51:32] But
we do know that like we other people exist too as we exist and human beings can
be, we have this amazing capacity to be demonic or angelic, you know, like you
can really, you, one person, you know there, there's little moments in life
where, you whatever it is, like you're at the post office and it's five Oh one
and you had to get this letter out today or you're getting fired and you're
like, yo, my life is ruined. If you're talking to some person on the other end,
can you please just take this one packet, you know, I'm just coming up with a
scenario and that person could go, all right, come here, give me the package.
And you're like, yo, you just saved my life. You know what I mean? Like you
have no idea what you just did for me. And like you can do that for other
people. You could try your best to throughout your day and your career and your
life be like, you'll let me help this guy and be that person or You can be what
Benjamin Netanyahu is to the Palestinians, you know, like just a monster. The
guy who just like ruined their family's life. And so if we're kind of given
this world and we don't have all of the answers to it, but we kind of know that
we have like inability to be either one of those things. Hey, really focus on
being the angel for people. Really focus on trying to help others. And I think
that makes you a much happier person. The more you agree with that. 

 

Tucker [01:52:49] You
agree with that completely. And do you find that people you knew in the secular
world growing up are reaching similar conclusions? 

 

Dave Smith [01:52:56] Yeah,
I think I know several people like that and I do I think that I'm He had an
amazing meteoric rise and a really tragic fall, but I think this is why Jordan
Peterson was such a phenomenon for years, that it was like going around and
telling young men that you should search out purpose and search out God. It's
amazing how powerful that is. I love that. 

 

Tucker [01:53:22] I
love that. Yeah, me too. He takes a lot of abuse and I think he's against me or
whatever, I don't even, I could care less, but I will always appreciate that
about Jordan Peters. 

 

Dave Smith [01:53:31] Yeah,
me too. 

 

Tucker [01:53:32] That
he did that. 

 

Dave Smith [01:53:33] Yeah,
you know, I like, um, I, I in a way he was a guy who I always really wanted to
talk to and never did. Um, he was, uh, you know, obviously, I mean him joining
the daily wire and going on that side was just really, really tragic mistake.
And, um I think he threw away all of the credibility that he had with the
younger generation when they really could have used his voice. You know, he was
never much as a political actor. He was always something else. 

 

Tucker [01:54:00] No,
he's like a Canadian psychologist. Yeah, like this, this one. 

 

Dave Smith [01:54:03] Sit
that part out. He missed the mark on a lot of his political points, but I mean,
when you're on record telling Benjamin Netanyahu to give them hell, that's
really hard to come back from. But he came on Joe Rogan's show the episode
after I debated Douglas Murray. I believe it was the next one was Jordan
Peterson. And I remember watching it, and I did feel like, I was like, oh, man,
I think he's going to say, you know what I mean? Like I think he's gonna say
something. You know, nasty about me because he's Ben Shapiro and Netanyahu's
guy now and they just had this big debate. And he didn't, he kind of said, oh,
I thought, he didn't t name me. He mentioned Douglas and Joe and he said, I
thought everyone involved did a good job. So I was like, okay, that was nice to
me in a way that I was, oh, he had, you know from someone at the Daily Wire,
that's about as good as I can expect. He was a pretty charitable guy. 

 

Tucker [01:54:54] He
was a pretty charitable guy. I mean, I thought he had flaws, but I was never. I
always said charitable, and still do have charitable feelings toward him.
Douglas Murray, however. That's a different one. What happened to Doug? Is he
still living in this country? 

 

Dave Smith [01:55:06] No,
he's doing great. I think he got a gig, uh, writing speeches for the Israeli
government from where else I heard. Yeah, can I just, I don't know if I've,
have I said this on your show before? I don't think so. Um, because I think
last time we spoke was right after that debate or last time we spoke on the
podcast, not spoke in life. But uh, last time w we were doing the show was
right After that debate, but before this came out and it was a Ryan Grimm and
the guys over at drop site who, who published this. But so if you remember the
famous You've never been argument. Well, I got, I'm sorry. I should not call
that an argument. There's, it's not an argument, but what he said, what he was
trying to say, which was really kind of silly, but he was like a, you know, he
goes, well, he said I have the journalistic courtesy of visiting a place before
I talk about that place. This was, he was lecturing me about journalistic
ethics. Now, I'm not a journalist, Tucker. I'm a stand-up comedian. You've been
a journalist for many years, so maybe you can fill me in on this. I'm an expert
in journalistic ethics. What are the ethics of covering a country and not
disclosing that you work for the government? 

 

Tucker [01:56:16] You
know, I would have to consult like a professor of ethics like Sam Baikman
Fried's parents. Yes. I think his mother does that for a living, so we have a
whole infrastructure designed to answer complex questions like that, Dave. 

 

Dave Smith [01:56:29] By
the way, how about I have the courtesy? Of not advocating for wars that i'm not
willing to fight in myself that's my professional uh... Courtesy but there is a
much better standard who spends i mean what type of person what i i think you
know 

 

Tucker [01:56:45] But
he kind of went away, didn't he? I mean, Douglas Murray was like, I took him
seriously. By the way, I knew him well. And I thought he had, you know, there
were things about him that I felt sorry for him because of them. But in
general, it's smart. And I never had a problem with him at all. Had a couple of
fun dinners with him. That debate, which you were proclaimed the loser of by a
lot of people, I think that's. 

 

Dave Smith [01:57:07] Destroyed
his life. Yeah well again it was like no one except the people who already had
made up their mind that Israel is the greatest country ever. No one except them
thought that he won the debate. A few of them seemed to celebrate that. The
comment section under the video was just torching him. Like every regular
person went, oh he just destroyed himself. And then I will say a lot of people
including some prominent people who you listener know, including Charlie Kirk,
by the way, texted me after that debate and were like, yo, dude, he just
destroyed his credibility, or like that was crazy that he came at you like
that. I had people, you know, whatever, I won't name all of them because I
don't want to give out private information. Maybe I shouldn't have. I mentioned
that about Charlie Kirk because Candice months back had called on me to like.
To release whatever private communications i have that might be relevant about
one of the things was relevant was that he said after the debate that he
largely agreed with me 

 

Tucker [01:58:11] Well,
he certainly did, I talked to him on this topic. 

 

Dave Smith [01:58:13] Yeah,
I'm yeah, so I did think that was relevant and to like where his mind state was
but other people like I think a lot of people kind of Expected him to be like
they were like, okay Dave you've been blowing through these debates But this is
the best guy on the other side. So he's gonna come really give British accent.
So there was 

 

Tucker [01:58:28] So
there was no chance that- Well that's right. 

 

Dave Smith [01:58:30] Well,
that's someone from Brooklyn was going to be well, that yeah, I guess that's
the first the first advantage that he had But you know, there's a weird thing
where again kind of back to what I was saying before you see this thing where?
So After that debate happens. I have this huge like groundswell of support From
people then Donald Trump tweets out You got to go get Douglas Murray's new book
like two days after the debate or something like that And it just I thought
there was an interesting parallel between that And, um, when, uh, Donald Trump
just tweeted the other day about how great, not the one to watch the show, but
he treated last week about how wonderful Mark Levin is and how everyone arguing
with him is awful or something like that. And if, if you look on Twitter, not
saying Twitter is everything, but it's one little, you know, glimpse into things.
I mean, Mark LeVine gets ratioed by random people, like not even like, like you
or Megan Kelly or someone like that, I'm saying like, some random guy will just
call Mark Levin an idiot and way more people like his tweet than like Mark
Leven's tweet. He's out there, he's feuding it with Megyn Kelly and he's
calling you and me every name in the book. And then the entire audience is just
going with us. And then Trump comes out and says, we're all in. 

 

Tucker [01:59:45] So
I saw that when when Trump tweeted that about you read You know Douglas
Murray's dumb books because I was so focused on the Iran thing and just have to
prevent a war with Iran. Yeah, that's more important. Well I don't know though,
I mean that was foreshadowing that actually there was a lot of control. Why
would the President of the United States be promoting Douglas Murray who, you
know, he's not even American and he's like totally discredited. Why would the
president be promoting him? 

 

Dave Smith [02:00:20] Well,
I mean, doing Mark Levin is much worse. I mean look, Douglas Murray, I do think
he was ridiculous and he kind of made an ass out of himself in that debate. But
Mark Leven has gone to a level of retardation that I've never seen out of, you
know like, listen, I was never to, I was somewhat impressed by the first
generation of neocons. You know, I think that- I worked with him. 

 

Tucker [02:00:44] No,
yeah, I was one but I think well, sorry no, but I mean like 

 

Dave Smith [02:00:47] No,
but I mean like, I mean, like Leo Strauss and Irving Kristol and those guys,
right? And, and, but then I always thought like, I always kind of went, you
know, if you remember the Fox News, he wasn't really on your show a lot, but if
you remembered the reverence people used to have for Charles Krauthammer, like
they would all talk about him, like to his face, they'd be like, the genius is
here. And then I'd be, like, I've never heard him say anything interesting
ever. I just don't. 

 

Tucker [02:01:11] Ever.
I just don't agree. I don't know. 

 

Dave Smith [02:01:12] I
don't know what the, but all of those guys. So I was always like. 

 

Tucker [02:01:15] One
thing I'll say about Charles who I knew really well, he was a very nice man,
and he was a nice man because he had had to reckon with, you know, being
paralyzed from the chest down from medical school. And so he just had a
perspective on life. I spent hours, hours talking to him and I knew his wife
and I really liked him as a man, but his views were impossible to defend if you
cared about the United 

 

Dave Smith [02:01:39] That
right. But anyway, I guess with all of them, I was never particularly
intellectually impressed with any of them. No, I want to see, by the way, if
you want to, see if you've never watched man, Scott Horton debating Bill
Kristol at the Soho forum. It was, you really exposed just how much Bill
Kristal has nothing, no knowledge, no argument, nothing. He literally, I've
never seen it happen before. He threw in the towel in the debate. Essentially,
he literally, at one point Scott makes some argument. There was like a back and
forth six section. And Scott makes some argument and he goes, well, we just
have fundamentally different world views. And you're like, yeah, that's why
you're debating. You have to make an argument. And then he- He will never
explain what his world view is. And then in his closing, there was still like
three minutes on the clock and he just stopped. Anyway, I say all of this to
say- He doesn't care though. I've seen some dumb arguments from neocons over
the years. I have never seen anyone go full blown Mark Levin the way he goes.
Like it is- that he's literally just a ranting old man yelling insults
unattached to any argument at all. Like his whole show is just like, yeah, this
little punk wants to come and talk to me. A little fascist. Like, it's like,
what is this dude? Like, and so there is something about Donald Trump promoting
that. That is, that's like several levels worse than promoting Douglas. 

 

Tucker [02:03:02] No,
but it's so then you have to ask like well, what actually is it? It's not
designed to win people over it's designed to increase hatred anti-semitism, by
the way Absolutely. I mean if you were if you, were you know, whoever Mark
thinks he's working for the Israelis I guess you would look at the students say
this is not helping us don't do this Don't you know get some articulate decent
hot woman on there to make the case or whatever you do a marketing thing
Anti-marketing this is designed to repel people. So why would you want that? I
don't know the answer, but it's clearly true second his relationship with the
president is Bizarre you think trump likes that there was a there was moment at
some anti-stop anti-semitism event of some kind or hanukkah celebration or some
jewish themed white house event where Trump was there with Mark Levin and Levin
comes over and puts his arm around the president's neck and pulls him in now I
know Trump well I mean I wouldn't like that and I'm not even the president or a
germaphobe yeah what is that and under normal circumstances Trump would never
put up with that you just what you're you're doing the Dominance move over the
President of the United States. 

 

Dave Smith [02:04:14] And
over Donald Trump are you not just the president but Donald Trump the most
dominant alpha male guy That's a dominant That's a dominance move. 

 

Tucker [02:04:21] Who
does that to other people. Exactly. But even Trump, who is very much about
dominance, obviously, most powerful menor, Trump would never throw his arm
around someone and give him a headlock like that. No, no, no. I hope. 

 

Dave Smith [02:04:33] No,
no, no. I help pull you in while he shakes your hand a hundred thing What did
he do to one of the g7 meetings or whatever where he cuts in front of some
other world? Really, but like there are by the way, this is another thing that
I'm totally breaking the rules dude But I'm oblivious to this thing But this is
as you said powerful men are like this where there's like alpha move Yeah like
taking your thing and just make it you know, like whatever like if you have a
little thing of peanuts here That you're eating and I just reach in and tail.
You know what I mean? Like But to do that to Donald Trump, I understand. I'm
not trying to make too much of a little thing. It's not a little, that was,
there was something symbolic and then proclaims him the first Jewish president.
Um, you got a very strange. 

 

Tucker [02:05:12] Trump,
he never said this to me, but just knowing him, you gotta think, he's filled
with rage. Someone doing that to him. But he puts up with it anyway. But why
would you do that to them? So if you want to exert influence over someone who's
powerful, there's a way to do it. But the last way to it is to be like, I'm in
charge here, just so you know. I'm more powerful than the president. That's
what Levin is saying, and Trump is putting up with that. This is either, it's a
form of sadomasochism. But it also reveals the true architecture of power in a
way that's like, what? 

 

Dave Smith [02:05:45] Well,
I think. What is that? Well, here, I'll say this, and just to preface this, I'm
not saying anything other than what I'm saying. I'm now implying something that
I don't know any more than this, and maybe you know more than I do, but I will
say, you know, people used to say, when Donald Trump was first rising to
political, his political career in 2016 when he was running, when he's first
president, I remember liberals used to always say that he's dog whistling
bigotry. Yeah. And you know, we always thought this was so always like a dog
whistle, but it's like a thing where you kind of, first of all, it's kind of
weird. Cause you're like, well, then wouldn't you not hear it if it's a dog
whistle? Cause wouldn't only the bigots hear it. Isn't that the idea? Also,
that seems like a very convenient way of saying, even though there's nothing I
can actually point to that you said, he's also raised. But what I always
thought was that what Donald Trump did was he would very often stoke or give a
wink and a nod to conspiracies. That he was, look, he went out there about
Obama's birth certificate. He obviously called out the whole Russiagate thing,
which was a legit conspiracy to unseat the sitting president. No, but the Q
thing. The Q thing, he'd float out the, obviously the election being stolen,
but all the witch hunt, and of course now with Epstein, when it's not really,
well, it is a conspiracy, but it's a legitimate one, but he's saying, oh, it's,
you know, there's a democratic hoax. He is very quick to any time it will help
him look good to be like, it's a conspiracy against me. Never once with Butler.
Never once. And it's kind of crazy, man. Like we don't, we have like no
information. They haven't even like attempted to give us a national story that
puts a little bow on top of like who this guy was or what happened, how there
was such a security failure that could allow. A sniper 130 yards away to get a
clean shot at the president, a former president and current candidates head.
Um, what the, just kind of no internet history. Can't get into his phones. Ah,
he wanted to kill anyone. He could. That's all nothing to see here. And it's
just a little bizarre to me that you would think like all other things making
sense. You would just think you would hear Donald Trump going, they tried to
kill me. They tried to do this. They try to, but I mean, days afterward, he
just thanked the Secret Service for what a great job they did. And I don't know
what any of that means. 

 

Tucker [02:08:15] I
know a lot about it and I'll just say this which we said publicly is I You know
I got a call from somebody who said I've got a lot of material from the gunman
And I'm not disputing he was the gunmen by the way seems like the gun man
Question is like was he working in concert with anyone else were there other
people involved right the same with Charlie Kirk It's not a question of you
know I don't know anything But the question is never just did the guy pull the
trigger of course you ever disprove that with the videotape that we don't have
from the Charlie Kirk assassination for some reason. But whatever. The point
is, that's only one part of the story. The question was, were there other
people involved? And in the case of Butler, I got this corpus of information
from a guy almost off the street. We showed that it was real. Always skeptical
of this stuff, very skeptical. But it turns out this was actually from Thomas
Crooks' YouTube account. And the FBI claimed that this didn't exist. Well, of
course, they knew it existed. So then the question becomes, well, why are they,
since the man is dead in this sole shooter crime, there's a lone gunman, and
the lone gunmen's gone, why would we hold back anything, any evidence we have,
but they did. And that would include video surveillance of the shooting range,
where he trained to shoot. It's a pretty good shot, over 100 yards with a .223.
I shoot a. 223, that's like, all these seals are like, oh, that was nothing,
but like for a non-seal, it's a decent shot. So, um. Videotape from the
shooting range. Did he train alone? Who was with him? Never been released and
the investigation was shut down, shut down. So what does that mean? I don't
know. I mean, like, what is going on? 

 

Dave Smith [02:09:59] And
i gotta say uh... Why can't we know well hearing the uh... Heroic former
director of of counter-terrorism come on your show and kind of say the same
thing does just have a lot more weight to it when the guy was literally the
director of counter terrorism and going like hey what's going on here we have
not gotten answers 

 

Tucker [02:10:19] And
he tied those facts, those are facts. He stated facts. By the way, when he, now
we've just heard the FBI is not actually investigating him, that was all fake,
he retained his security clearance until the morning he left. So if he was
under investigation for treason or something, he wouldn't have held his
clearance and had access to highest level intelligence, which he retained until
the moment he resigned. So okay, that all a lie. He said point-blank one of the
most informed people in the United States with clearances higher. I think even
than Mark Levin's There's a connection between Trump's decision to go to war in
Iran and these not fully explained acts of violence He said that so okay before
we denounce him as crazy, which maybe he is I don't know doesn't seem to be but
I hold open any possibility What is he talking about? And there has not only
been zero interest from, like, the people in charge of ginning up interest,
like the internet, the influencers, there's been calculated discouragement and
attacks on anyone who persists in asking the question. And I haven't gotten
involved because I know everybody and it's so emotional to me, but at a certain
point I'm going to, you know, whatever, I feel like I've got a pretty close
vantage on all this stuff and I'm getting a little sick of it because every
American has a right. To justice, not just for himself, but for any other
American citizen. Our whole system rests on the idea that there will be justice
affected by the U.S. Government. And we have a right to know, you have no right
to keep that from me. On what grounds are you keeping that from you? You can't
brow beat me into it by screaming Candace Owens again and again and. Yeah,
that's right. 

 

Dave Smith [02:11:58] And
look, like, to me, I've tried. It's outrageous, actually. No, absolutely. And
listen, I'll say just personally, like I, you know, and I knew Charlie, and not
super well. We weren't like close friends, but like I'd done a show a few
times, and we texted a few time, and he had me at that last, had me do the
debate there, and we hung out for a little bit while we were there. It's, uh, I
wasn't as close with him as, as you were, but it's even just like being friends
with someone like that. It's it's, first of it's like, it's very jarring, uh to
see that happen. And then he's got a wife and little kids, really tragic,
horrible situation. And I'm like, my incentives on all of this is like, I just
don't want to believe that this was anything more than like one crazy guy with
a transfer a boyfriend or whatever like that, that actually is much more
comforting to me. Then it's some conspiracy. Half of Twitter seem to think I
was the one who got him killed or something like that, or me and you and Megan
or something. 

 

Tucker [02:12:57] I
very much vehemently want to believe. 

 

Dave Smith [02:13:00] Yes.
Right. So like, we don't want that. I will say, so, and I have not done like
deep dives and watched all of Candice's shows on this or something, but like
there's little pieces of information just like, it's been confirmed by a few
different people that he was texting them. They're going to kill me. Like, Hey
man, that's gotta be like totally exhausted. Didn't investigate it. I mean,
what is this here? This is a pretty big deal. You really got to get to the
bottom of stuff like that. And look, as you're sitting here, You know, it's
almost like sometimes people will, will call, you know, they'll call you out
for being a conspiracy theorist or something, or, you know, you, they say the
just asking questions. 

 

Tucker [02:13:37] You
know what's worse than being a conspiracy theorist is having no curiosity about
questions that have not been answered. 

 

Dave Smith [02:13:42] Well,
also, there's just something. 

 

Tucker [02:13:43] I'm
not a conspiracy theorist and I believe in curiosity and skepticism I've
encouraged that in a lot of people and some have been very resistant to be
curious Yeah, skeptical and there are two sides to this There's not simply the
people who are coming up with conspiracies the theory some of them obviously
fantastical and wrong I would think there's also the government side which is
telling you shut up. We have this solved and I think we should apply the same
skepticism to their claims as well There's no reason the FBI should get an
automatic on the basis of what? Will also their track record of always telling
the truth to people like what are you even talking about? Well, that's and how
dare you threaten me and call me names I mean, I'm not getting paid for this. I
you know, I've stayed out of it. I'm just getting too mad. Well watching 

 

Dave Smith [02:14:26] So
even before the Epstein files got released back when podesta emails were
released in the original pizza gate theory was was born and you know if you look
through some of those podesta e-mails look they're clearly talking in code now
what is the code I mean people are speculating that it was children. Now I have
absolutely no reason to believe that. They're not planning pizza parties. You
know what I mean? Like they're speaking in code. 

 

Tucker [02:14:58] When
Epstein's urologist, who's just prescribed him erectile dysfunction drugs, says
take the pills and then meet me for pizza and grape soda, that's in the Epstein
files. Maybe there's nothing to do with sex, maybe they're actually, you get
wicked hungry after you take a boner pill. I don't know. But the fact that
nobody cares to find out or even interview the urologists to I'm gonna say,
hey, what is this? And I felt the same way back then. Who drinks grape soda?
What are you even talking? 

 

Dave Smith [02:15:28] There's
no- 

 

Tucker [02:15:29] Wait

 

Dave Smith [02:15:30] person
in America who drinks grape soda, stop. I haven't had grapes. I maybe had grape
soda when I was a child. I'm not against it. I'm just saying like, talk to the
urologist. No, well, right. Exactly. So it's the thing about it is, right? Like
even with the original pizza gate thing, the position of like the corporate
media was to sit there and go, you're an idiot. If you think this code is
about, oh, you're a conspiracy theorist. If they, instead of putting a
microphone in front of John Podesta and going, Hey, you're clearly speaking in
code here. People are assuming that that code is for raping children So clear
this up because it can't be any worse than what people are speculating So what
is it sir and no one ever even thinks to do that in this and all the 

 

Tucker [02:16:09] And
all the hostility is aimed at people who are asking the questions. And that's a
tell right there, you know, there's people, here you have gunshots ringing out
in my country, people getting killed or attempted murder, a couple of attempted
murders, there will be more, unfortunately, and anyone who's interested in like
finding out or doesn't automatically trust the government, which we're supposed
to be skeptical of, That person is the villain? 

 

Dave Smith [02:16:36] And
you know, in, in a similar thing there, I don't know, I, maybe I'm going to
struggle to like word this the right way, but there's certain things that in a
vacuum might be true, but aren't true in all circumstances. So in, in other
words, like if you typically speaking, you'd go, Hey, before you want to start
you know, believing something, you got to see strong evidence for it or
something like that. Or you can't just start theorizing and speculating about
things without like some indication or something pointing you in that
direction. But then like if me and you both just wake up, uh, together and we
were blacked out for the last 10 hours and we're chained up in a prison
somewhere or something that, and you start going like, We got to start
speculating about how the hell we got here because this is so crazy. You know
what I mean? And then I'd be like, Hey, my neighbor said something this morning
to me about how like, I bet it's going to be a rough day, you know? And I'm
like, we got to think maybe my neighbor had something to do with this. Now,
then some, some skeptic could come along and go, your neighbor saying it's
gonna be a bad day doesn't act isn't actually evidence. And you're like, okay,
but we're here. Like we got it. And so in, in a sense, there's like, Okay, yes,
you could, you can be skeptical and it's good to be skeptical of, of some of
these claims, but at the same time, we're sitting here watching the, it's so
crazy to watch, right? But the never Trumpers are now the biggest hardcore
Trump supporters as they're destroying the coalition that they were afraid of,
right. 

 

Tucker [02:18:08] And
for destroying Trump himself. 

 

Dave Smith [02:18:09] Right
and so you're you've watched this happen and that does lead you to go How
exactly did they pull this off? How is it that people like, you know So I you
know, look, I'm I'm a little bit more hot-headed than you at times And maybe
this is because you know I'm little I'm A decade younger than you and I still
drink big glasses of whiskey at night and I stole and I'm just furious about a
lot of things and I maybe I should you know let some of that go but You know,
like I'm still furious at Ben Shapiro. And the only reason I hate Ben Shapira's
guts is because he called Ron Paul a Jew hater back in the day when it was
totally just ridiculous. You read some of these tweets recently, I think. Ron
Paul is up there talking about how it's not wise to fight multiple wars. This
is what brings down nation. And Ben Shapire goes, oh, I bet you just want to
strangle a Jew. You know he's like, fuck you, dude. How dare you speak to a man
so much better than you that way. Anyway, but, so I was furious over the 12 day
war. Uh... Last summer was to and i i uh... Went on breaking points uh...
Creature without crystal and and seger who i love very much uh... He says
markman great those literally love seger to death is just great uh... So i'm
really happy to call a friend and um... He uh... Sorry when the show right
after it and i called for trumps impeachment i said he should be impeached and
removed for this is launched a war of aggression it's illegal it's for a
foreign country it's what he promised not to do. You know, I was very angry. I
still stand by that, but I was angry. And then of course, all of them, all the
guys, you know, Josh hammer and Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin, they all just start
talking shit about me. Look, this guy doesn't support Trump. Oh, he voted for
Trump last time, but he's calling for his impeachment now as if I don't
remember. Where all you guys were in 2016 when national review was running
their never Trump, uh, edition. And Ben Shapiro promised for, for deeply held
principled reasons. He could never support Donald Trump. And Mark Levin was
never true. All these guys were never Trump. Now that he's become a Warhawk,
what he explicitly ran against being in every election. Now that you've become
that they all love them to death and they're destroyed. Like, so anyway, my
point is sorry, sometimes you see facts like that and you go, that's worth
speculating about. I do have some questions. I'd like to ask on how exactly
these guys were able to infiltrate this movement, destroy it from within and,
you know, set our country on this trajectory toward another catastrophic war.
There's, there's, there's a lot that went into that happening. 

 

Tucker [02:20:42] I
couldn't agree more. I guess the only last thing I would say about it is you
started by saying the legacy media Covered for the crimes of their masters the
ruling class. Okay, got it. I mean, that's what they exist to do That's why we
have NBC News. That's right. Yes. No, I totally that's why Fox is here but to
see people in independent media doing that and I understand it's very easy to
get sidetracked like you're mad at one person and And so, anyone... Who is
asking similar questions to that person, like must be on that side or
something, but like try to retain independence in your head. Like, don't get
sidetracked. Certain questions have to be answered no matter who's asking them,
right? One of the questions I still can't answer is why is it that all the
neocons are the ones leading the screaming in anyone who asks questions about
Charlie Kirk's death when Charlie Kirk was an enemy of the neocrons? Like open
enemy of the neocon invited you to TPUSA like you don't invite it and he didn't
it's not because the kids at TPUS they're like oh I grew up loving Dave Smith 

 

Dave Smith [02:21:51] Yeah,
well, that's I said that I've said this on other shows too But I said this to
you that it's like there was something about invite, you know inviting you or
Megyn Kelly Yeah, we're on Fox News. It's fine. Yeah, and huge famous stars on
Fox. It was not just like someone on Fox news Like two of the biggest shows 

 

Tucker [02:22:06] There's
no reason to invite you to a turning point event unless he wants the kids in
the audience to hear your views, which he did because he subsequently agreed
with them. And I would know, because I talked to him about this a lot, like a
lot a lot over years. So for the neocons whom he at best didn't trust and
mostly really didn't like, I never talk about what I think Charlie thought
because it feels so weird because he's gone. But I just have to say this,
they're the ones leading the charge and shut up, don't ask any questions. You
tell me what this is, but I'm not gonna take orders from them. Who are these
people? 

 

Dave Smith [02:22:40] Anyway,
this is the same reason why this is the reason why I read that text message
that he, uh, he sent me. And it was because, well, part of it was because
Candice asked and I'm friends with Candice and she was very, she lost someone
she was very close to. Um, but part of, it was that, you know, cause it's a
weird thing to do. It's a word thing to share private text messages with
anyone, especially someone who just died. And I got some pushback for that. And
I understand why people, like I get their point. Maybe I shouldn't have done
that. I'm not sure, but you know it was the We're like Netanyahu immediately is
trying to hijack his legacy. Josh Hammer and all these guys are immediately
trying to hijack. And so it's kind of like selling their books, right?
Literally, dude, it's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. Josh
Hammer did three interviews immediately after. The only reason anyone's
interviewing him is because he was friends with Charlie Kirk, or he was close
around his circle or whatever. And every single time he mentioned how much
Charlie loved his book. It's like, Jesus, dude. I mean. 

 

Tucker [02:23:34] And
i think it's a little stronger than the last of his friends with josh hammer 

 

Dave Smith [02:23:37] Well,
okay, well he he had him in his circles or whatever his handler or whatever it
was But you know, I remember, you know right before Charlie died. He called me
and he said man I just wish everyone would listen to your podcast This is so
crazy of a thing to say But the reason I I released that is because I'm like
look I don't know exactly where Charlie was on his evolution on this topic
Obviously he had at one point been a die-hard pro-israel guy But a lot of
people were that and then kind of woke up over the last couple years But I know
that he texted me after my debate with Douglas Murray that he said he thought I
did a great job and he really did. He said something like, I read it verbatim
on my show, but he said something. Like, I believe it or not, I really didn't
disagree with almost anything you said. And I'm just saying, Ben Shapiro wasn't
sending me that text. So for people to try to pretend there was no daylight
between the two of them is just not true. 

 

Tucker [02:24:27] No,
there was hostility, big time. And not just with, you know, those guys,
hostility. I mean, I don't want to overstate it. I'm not saying he hated them
as people, but I mean he did not agree at all. And- 

 

Dave Smith [02:24:40] and
certainly didn't agree with war with Iran. 

 

Tucker [02:24:42] At
all, and with also, honestly, some of the Christian Zionist leaders. I mean,
Charles was very, he loved Israel as a country, for sure. And I think he had a
complicated theology, which I did not fully understand and still don't fully
understand. But the idea that you would put another country before your own,
like he just rejected that flat out. And some of the Christians, Zionist,
leaders men are very aggressive and shark-like, and very money-oriented and
pushy. And he started talking. He talked about it with me a lot. 

 

Dave Smith [02:25:14] Yeah,
well you talked about it on Megyn Kelly's show I mean talked about the reaction
he got from evangelical leaders from well, maybe not from the evangelical. It
wasn't it was a mix 

 

Tucker [02:25:20] It
wasn't. It was a mixture of Jewish Zionists like the guys you mentioned, but
also the people he grew up with who are evangelical leaders. And he was upset
with them. I mean, I talked to him about it at length. I could name names with
who he was. I'm not going to because he's gone. But yeah, that's just real. And
I don't know. I don't even like talking about this, but I'm just offended by
where this is going. And the bottom line is. Every American has an interest in
every murder getting solved, and not just in getting solved but fully solved.
Yeah. And if you have a government agency that's shutting down a legitimate
line of inquiry, at very least you have to answer the question of why are you
doing that? And Joe Kent has said in public multiple times, including to me,
the FBI shut down any effort to look into international connections here within
days of the killing. Someone should ask the FBI like why did you do that? And
no one seems 

 

Dave Smith [02:26:21] willing
to ask and look we also know what we know about this FBI who I just could not
be more disgusted with and you know I know you saw when everyone's afraid of
them well what Dan Bongino was talking all types of shit to me on Twitter or
whatever but it's it's like you just, you, you know, there was a thing where
people were saying, uh, they were trying to go Dan Bongino into debating me
cause he was talking shit about me. And you know as I was, I think I responded
in kind. Um, but the thing is like, he can't, Dan Bongina not only can he not
come debate me, Dan Bongi no can't ever do a difficult interview ever again for
the rest of his life because he's ended in one question. I literally, one
question ends it. I just go, Hey, Okay, so you looked the American people in
the eyes and you swore that you had seen the proof that Jeffrey Epstein killed
himself. Well, it's been declassified by an act of Congress now, so go ahead
and tell us, what'd you say? It's all declassified now. But it doesn't, it
doesn' what are the few exceptions in the rule? If it's national security or if
it harms the victims or something like that, how would it possibly be any of
those for you to just tell me what you saw that made you comfortable enough to
go out there and swear that you had seen proof that he killed himself? Cash
Patel, Dan Bongino, but these guys specifically, and this is one of the big
things I think 

 

Tucker [02:27:46] I
just want to interject, this is not aimed at anyone in particular, but you
know, we say we know things, but I would always add the caveat to the extent
that you can know things. Of course. I've known many things, I've turned out to
be wrong, you know so I could be wrong. But this is sincere. I believe I can
say with certainty that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered. So I, so I mean, but of
course I'm always open to countervailing evidence. Right, so let's see that. My
capacity for being wrong. But I can say if you could x-ray my heart, you would
find that I believe with total certainty he was murdered and the people in the
US government knew that he was murdered. I don't want that to be true, but I
believe it is true. So like, it's gonna take a lot. You're gonna have to show
me that that's false. 

 

Dave Smith [02:28:30] Well,
the reason why I have so much contempt for Dan Bongino and Cash Patel,
particularly, and Pam Bondi too, but more so the other two, is that these guys
went around, and really Dan Bongio, I mean, Cash did many podcasts and stuff,
but Dan Bongi got rich doing his show. At a really big show. And he flamed that
Epstein stuff for so long was like, don't let go of this one. This is a huge
scandal. We're going to get in there and expose it. And I got to say every bit
as much as the war in Iran, maybe not quite as much of this most recent one,
but the covering up the Epstein scandal did so much to damage this
administration because it went to something very fundamental. The, the
fundamental promise of Donald Trump and the reason why Donald Trump uh... I'd
i'd believe the main reason that he wrote a political success in one the
presidency twice uh... Was that he said he was going to drain the swamp during
the swamp was an ink readably affective campaign slogan it was essentially
saying look man and on some level almost all americans know this this city in
dc filled with corruption and the people in political power have committed
profound crimes against the American people. And none of them have been held
accountable for it. And we're going to hold them accountable for this and for
this justice department now to go in and put up zero deep state arrests. I
mean, dude, if you just think about the fact that the intelligence agencies
framed the sitting president for treason for four years, I mean in obvious deep
state coup to, uh, to overthrow or an attempted deep state coup to attempt to
overthrow a democratically elected president. Like it is, it was an outrage
that they did it to him on the campaign, but it is a little bit different when
he's a presidential candidate than when he is the commander in chief, the
president of the United States of America. They framed him for being a Russian
spy. Donald Trump is a lot of things. He is not a Russian spot. Okay. There's
never been one. It was the most ridiculous thing ever. It was all complete
phony evidence and they knew it. They knowingly went forward with that. And,
um, uh, Andrew, uh, Andrew McCabe admitted on 60 minutes that he said their
plan was to invoke the 25th amendment, but they realized they couldn't get
enough people to go along with that. And so they settled for Robert Mueller.
They settled for a special investigation that would tie him down and not let
him get his America first, uh agenda through. So there's that there's COVID,
there's, you know what I'm saying? There's the Epstein stuff. There's all types
of crime. I mean, COVID, you think about it. We free, they freaking locked down
the country. And didn't disclose that they made it, they made the germ
themselves. Fauci was like the hero of the response for like a year and a half
before they finally came out that it was him who made it. I mean, just, and
they have just at every turn protected power. And again, like with the Epstein
thing, man, like you don't have to, you only have to know like, I don't know,
you just know like if you know like five or six things about it, you're like,
okay, this is some type of huge conspiracy. You know, like I don't know exactly
what it is. And by the way, the files being released did shake up my interpretation
of the whole thing. I tweeted this once, but I kind of, I mean, I was saying it
tongue in cheek, but I kinda meant it sincerely that I used to speculate that
Jeffrey Epstein worked for Massad. And after the files came out, it's looking a
lot more like the Massad worked for Jeffrey Epstein. I did not think he was the
Rothschild's guy. I didn't realize that. You know? And so like, this thing is a
gigantic conspiracy. It's a, it's an interesting, limited look into how power
really works. And, and you know what I mean? Like what's really going on. 

 

Tucker [02:32:23] It's
like looking through a stained-glass window. You don't get a clear picture, but
you see the shapes and you realize this is not what I thought it was. I
actually came away from reading a lot of the Epstein stuff with the view of
Israel that was diminished. I thought Israel had less power, but of course he
was working with Masad. I said that and got called a Jew-hater or whatever. It
was just true. So we're also working with CIA and intelligence services from
around the world, but what he really was doing was acting as an employee of
others. As a kind of communications hub between the biggest stakeholders in the
West. And so what you really saw was that governments aren't in charge. There's
no meaningful nation state with full sovereignty. Like that's just not a thing.
There's a supra-structure whose outlines I can't fully see or even partly see,
but it's clearly there. And it's not all being run from the Levant by Netanyahu
who's probably got an IQ of 110. He's not a genius. So like, do you know what I
mean? Yes. 

 

Dave Smith [02:33:21] Yes,
100. 

 

Tucker [02:33:22] It's
way bigger than Israel, Israel is just like a place to hide out if you've been
accused of a crime, get a passport, do some money laundering, you know,
whatever. It's a lot of things, but Israel's not running the world. 

 

Dave Smith [02:33:33] Yeah,
no, there's something that you're absolutely right. There is, there is, uh,
there are power structures that we do not fully know about that are way more
important. 

 

Tucker [02:33:42] Of
course, because we bought the biggest lie of all, which is a competition
between nation states. And you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Ghana's got its own interests, but so does Singapore and China and India. And
it's like, yeah to some extent, but that's not, as soon as you have the free
flow of capital, a globalized economy, then you have a globalize government.
It's just a fact. And by government, I mean a governing body, which may be
informal or have blurry edges, but it's still totally real. It's way more real
than countries. Yeah. Yeah. How are countries like that's like almost a
medieval view. Well, even but countries with kings and armies. It's like. 

 

Dave Smith [02:34:20] Yeah,
no, that's right. And, and maybe it was, you know, it's like, it probably
wasn't even true in medieval times. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

 

Tucker [02:34:27] Well,
it literally wasn't, but like after 1848, like after you had like the creation
of like real, the resemblance or the, maybe the fiction of nation states. I
mean, I think it's more complicated than I'm making it sound, but. Yeah. It's
clearly not as simple as everyone else assumes. Yeah, well I know. Country's
actually in their own interests. Come on. 

 

Dave Smith [02:34:46] It's
an it there's this really great book written by Murray Rothbard who I mentioned
earlier Called the progressive era and it's about you know, the yeah, it's a
bout. I think that goes from might like Theodore Roosevelt for sure Woodrow
Wilson FDR and one of the things that they talk about is that there was and
this Really is true. Is that there were like there were real people Who really
like meant well and were kind of in my opinion got it wrong, but you know, the,
the kind of moderate socialist types or the progressives who, who were like,
Hey, we're such a wealthy country. We should have more of a managed economy so
that we can make sure it's working for everybody. But really what ends up
happening in the progressive era is then all the, uh, you know all, all the
Titans of industry, um, all those robber barons, as they call it, they all got
on board with it and they went, Oh yeah, totally. We should ever managed
economy. Yeah, absolutely. We'll be doing the managing. You know, it was all,
it was like all the money interests that they supposedly wanted to reign in
were the guys who ended up getting control of the government anyway. And so
this is how it works. 

 

Tucker [02:35:51] Dude,
it's Black Lives Matter as sponsored by Microsoft. Yeah, that's right, that
right. 

 

Dave Smith [02:35:57] The
gay pride parade has like a bank of America float coming through it. And you're
like, I mean, I know there is some leftist out there who really believes in the
gay pride, but like something bigger is going on than what you're paying no
really. 

 

Tucker [02:36:08] Dave,
no really, it's liberation, just trust me. This is gonna be liberation, don't
worry. It's too ridiculous, man. No, well good, thank you for everything you're
doing. Oh, of course. And I'm sorry if that got, I never get emotional, but I'm
starting to start yelling at you, but that's just stuff. 

 

Dave Smith [02:36:23] I
enjoy it. It's literally nothing makes me happier than to be held at an
agreement. 

 

Tucker [02:36:30] You're
the best. Thank you. Thank You, Sir.