Интервью с Майком Черновичем о политическом насилии и «информационной войне»

thank you mike for doing this so what do you think of the apprehension of nicholas maduro i'm i'm dealing with a lot of because i spent a lot of time online which you don't and i think there's pros and cons to each approach for sure and the the pro is that you're really plugged in the con is that if you read the comments which i do you really take a lashing every day like i just a lot because you can't by by virtue of taking a position you just get lashed by one side or the other heard that so now apparently i'm a neocon again i'm a i'm a neocon which is bizarre because i was pro the the raid on maduro and people say well therefore you're a neocon and the answer well you're not a neocon which is so that's why it's interesting that you were in favor of it but if you're if you're online yeah yeah of course but if you're online you're whatever the most extreme that's what they call you and no i'm not i'm not and i'm not an interventionist either but there's a i feel like we're always stuck between this false dialectic of you either do nothing or boots on the ground we need full marine battalions to take the beachheads whereas i've always been approach i've always been a fan of the trump approach which is used out that we have these guys do targeted strikes remind the world that the usa is still a world power even though we might not feel that way and exercise our might for for a good purpose so people say well this is iraq or afghanistan again and i go the people of venezuela are not the people have they're not the same people right as afghanistan it's a different people we've had special forces there for three four decades we've had business interests there for decades the people of venezuela voted out maduro or tried to and they couldn't get rid of them so we went in and we got rid of them so obviously i oppose escalation and whatever but the parade of whores especially after so mania just hasn't happened yet and that's because i've talked a lot of special operations guys during the trump admin and his the way his approach differed and this was covered a little bit in the media but not enough is under obama they just didn't let the d-boys and them run missions they everything had to get approval and work up the chain and by the time it happened they didn't have their targets and the trump approach was we we have these people they're trained the the the level of the missions that they can accomplish which we saw on video is unbelievable right he lets them he lets them do the missions they do the targeted strikes i've i've always been supportive of that yeah um i don't know if i mean i've got a double stack staccato nine in my bedside drawer i've never used it i don't feel the need to use it but i mean just because like but no i well i'll just tell you what i'm grateful for and i'm grateful for the wisdom of not taking out the entire government not because i support the government but because you know we have clear models in iraq and libya and a lot of syria like it can be very hard to put those things back together again and the fact that they appear to be backing delcie rodriguez not because they love her but because they're in favor of stability over chaos uh and her brother and they're kind of you know keeping the structure in place but making sure it's pro-american that seems like a much wiser approach that makes me calm down a little bit right yeah the the the problem that everybody the neoliberal and even some people on the right have is they don't understand that you needed a strong man like saddam hussein to keep all these religious sex together and it's obviously it's obvious in hindsight right but at the time people either didn't know and in my opinion they didn't know i think that's people people were just generally clueless like i remember i spent time with my wife in vietnam and you'd you'd roam around all over the place and i remember we did the tours of the caves and all i could think of was the tunnels not even the tunnels yet just the caves and the jungle and all i could think of was i can't even fit in through what in the world are we doing sending 18 year old corn fed boys and black guys into the vietnam jungles because if anybody had done any kind of advanced recon you would just say our guys are too big for the territory you would literally just go through there's there's just a lot to be said for looking at the real estate right and you would walk through and forget the tunnel rats and all the other ways that they were buried in you would just say there's no way we can send our people out here this is just a completely different area and then vietnam people have always tried to conquer them for thousands of years and they actually take pride not being conquered and the foreign policy elite of course just said well we're going to do vietnam and it was the same thing with iraq and libya oh all people are the same everybody's the same right we'll just remove salam hussein and everything will be fine then of course you have a mess but with venezuela and latin america they're they're just pretty much like us it's a little bit of different culture but they've been influenced by the europeans they've been influenced by the catholic church they're running a like similar operating system you can communicate to them in sort of like a shared language so even though people have doctrinal debates and everybody wants debates religion and what's the truth which to me is like the most boring thing in the world like if somebody's a christian and i'm a christian you're gonna maybe disagree about can you drink can you do this right what is this but you're still in the same language right you're still able to you're still like close enough that you can you share a framework like you can understand what someone's saying yeah we didn't share a framework middle east no which is a big problem so in venezuela it's a it's a different it's a different situation and i also like that the air defense was completely disabled even in the iran strike that happened a few months ago we we disabled their air system we we sent a message and i think we need to send a message the i'm sounding like a neocon that's why i hate that neocon i hate that neocons ruined it for all of us i hate that neocons ruined the discussion where you can't just talk about how it's good to have military might it's good to remind the world that we exist and that we can do these things we being the united states of america it's good to remind people that we're still running the tables but you talk like that and you sound again like you does it belong at the weekly standard or something well i mean you still have a chance to pivot against the neocons because the bb people literally bb's office is pushing for mcm this machado lady the the gay marriage lady the klaus schwab acolyte um who is supposed to be the nobel prize winner actually who's supposed to be the president and waiting and trump has said flat out no she has no support we're not doing that but the neocons are pushing for her they don't want uh the vice president to ascend to the presidency so you can say that's crazy well i knew when she won the nobel peace prize i actually posted we're going to go into venezuela yeah i i you can just check the receipt but not with her well no but the point is that's how the table gets set you can all by now by now you can tell the future if you just know that they always set the table a little bit beforehand and the minute she won the nobel peace prize and then praise trump oh no thank you for this but and then she's immediately kind of schmoozing with trump i go oh yeah we're going into venezuela i don't need any inside i don't need any i don't need any top secret sources that was all i needed to see so whoever we send i don't know i just send rubio i i'm just i'm i'm where we went wrong and i've had this conversation with everybody from line infantry guys to people who did the higher level stuff in afghanistan as they said we just didn't want to rule the country we we went in and we won all the military engagements this is another thing too why i'm glad the venezuela mission happened i was so i got so triggered man the way that even people politically aligned with us would talk about the american fighting man oh they they can't win a war they got beat by people who wear flip-flops and say no they didn't we took almost no casualties in afghanistan and i think the last year we were there i'm not even sure if there was a single casualty it was the occupation that was lost and these are just completely different things so i i think it's good to just remind people no that was all black pill doomerism because of poor leadership by people like milly and biden and the woke generals and that we we have a it's unreal we should take great pride in the people that we have in delta and seals and the special operations of course but i mean they're not making the policy decisions they're not that they're the instruments of other people's decisions they they are but they it's a two-way street these guys are not potted plants right of course not but i'm merely saying you can't hold you know a man with a gun in his hand responsible for the decision to be there with a gun in his hand like he was told to do that by someone in dc yeah yeah there with with i don't know i i think that with i think that to have retention if these higher level these higher level units i think is the dc people they obviously have an opinion but i think i think those guys get more of a vote than we might give them credit for they obviously can't just say well i'm not going to go do this but they you know they have a these are strong-willed people like i've met enough of these guys one they're extremely impressive it's just a different caliber of person and it's very humbling because because i would say oh i couldn't do this you know maybe some aspect of it i could but i couldn't i i don't have any um delusions that i would have been a squadron commander in delta force or whatever these are unbelievably impressive people yeah they are so they're they're not just you know they're you know scribbling down notes why some muppet gives them instructions did you make a new year's resolution eating healthier perhaps of course you did we all did well snacks are the thing that is going to screw you up but what if you could eat snacks and still be healthy well with vandy crisps there is a way vandy crisps the easiest way to eat clean without feeling like you're on a diet only three simple ingredients one pesticide-free potatoes two sea salt and three 100 percent grass-fed beef tallow you can eat a ton and still feel light and energetic not sluggish they're delicious they are real food and they taste great and your resolution allows them so this is the part where we want to tell you our favorite flavor but honestly we can't choose we would say it's a tie between 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will be amazing and i'm praying for that yeah it's always good i mean it's always good to look what look at what victory looks like and so you think this is victory no it's good to think what victory would look like yes this was this was the first step i think it was a good step but victory looks like we install our person who is aligned but you can't have a puppet because then every because remember with 20 28 it's not guaranteed so we have to think longer term too and you want to get a person who's aligned and is has their own point of view but generally is going to do the right thing the people of venezuela that do they were eating that i mean you're in florida you talk to anybody in florida they're thrilled that that this happened that maduro is out of power a lot of these people they had their farms taken their land taken see i don't care about that like you show up in our country you adopt our concerns and importing your homeland's conflicts into my country and making those the basis of my foreign policy should strip you your citizenship immediately like what i mean i don't know like i'm not advocating for anything in sweden or great britain i mean i do you know what i mean like stop they were during world war one though that's what we the anglos who founded the country so i guess they were allowed to do it but if you go back and read the debates around world war one a lot of it was about well we should go back because that's the homeland and people are naturally going to do that which is why jim which is why i support immigration moratorium everything but you i don't know i'm i guess i'm more of a pragmatist and idealist we live in the world sort of as it is and florida used to be a swing state it's deep red now venezuelans who come over are anti-communist we need anti-communist miami anti like i'll give you an example so if i if i if you hold events i mean you're way too famous at this point god help you is i mean that like sincerely like god help you um if you go to miami and antifa or somebody showed up the cubans would just say what do you get out of here like we're gonna well they did that during blm we're gonna like beat your asses miami had no meaningful blm riots tampa did why because tampa is the only majority white city in florida that's why right so it's us whites it's us like pussy whites indulge in that and the cubans and venezuelans who come in and live under communism so i if i if i look at the whole picture sometimes it's good to get a little injection of people who lit you know who lived under that because they're gonna they're gonna see it not as an abstract philosophical gentlemanly debate about oh should we allow wealth confiscation and for your homelands to be destroyed they see it as a fight for survival so i i get it i just it to take the attention away from our country which as far as i'm concerned is not thriving doesn't seem to be from driving around or there's some problems that need to be addressed big problems imminent problems and i don't know to spend all your time worrying about cuba like i don't i love the cubans here love them but how much money do you want to spend out of like your kids college fund on regime changing cuba i i'm more of imperialist i guess than you like where we live in rome the empires do what empires do like i i just look what happened to rome and london well and venice and every other and the seat of every other empire rome rome lasted a long time it did till the fall of constantinople which was well that now he's doing the holy roman empire okay you're you're adding a few centuries on there just notice i remember it's a funny story actually i remember i was because i you know i'm argumentative sometimes and i remember in my 20s i would always hear people say oh this is like the fall of the the roman empire i was like i wonder what that means well this is all pre-internet too so you couldn't just read read twitter all day and have people summarize it and so i bought gibbons the decline of fall of the roman empire all three volumes and the single most boring treatment ever written it's very well written though and i just kept reading and reading and reading and reading and reading and i think i got the abridged six volume whatever i made it through three of six and i go there's a lot to rome i don't know if we can just say there's a singular point i totally agree oh this is where it's just like the decline of fall so i'm more i'm more um bolshevik piled on the time we're in like i think we're much more closer to the time of franco or the time of the czar in russia and you know like mystery grove when he republished those books i read all those and i did too i had no real under like the white i remember actually it was funny when you said uh where's the white army and then all these websites try to say he's he was a nazi army and i was like you historical literate it was the white army it was the people fighting the white army yeah yeah no no but you realize how illiterate oh they thought that i meant like white like the david duke army or something yeah no i know i mean again no i know i remember and i was like wow these people are just illiterate historic illiterates and no because you send the monologue like where's our white army and immediately it was like twitter was like lighting up tucker carlson this is why i don't look at it that's yeah and spiriting and uh no but that's really how illiterate people are and people who write for a living who should know better right because i didn't know what the white army was until i was under lockdown on covid covid covid in a way was the worst thing that happened to regime propaganda yes because everybody was locked in and we had all these smart people who are just like posting things and you'd have these long threads and i go i never general franco all i knew about general franco was he's a fascist right general franco was bad um the republicans were good and that was my understanding of it uh cortez was bad the conquistadors were evil men they were there were great wicked people okay that was that's what i learned in school bolshevik revolution i kind of had a sense that it happened and the communist won and it wasn't good but i didn't realize the full evil right and then with covid you're like wait a minute people just posting books i'm like well i guess i'll just keep reading you know i was reading like three four books a week right and like you realize oh no we're not living under the fall of rome we're living under the time of the spanish civil war or the the bolshevik revolution that's what we're living under well i agree i agree with that and it's about it's spiritual war as both of those were the french revolution same revolutions of 1848 same it's all the same so we need we need the cubans and the venezuelans and the people who i agree i just want to focus on the united states to keep it from becoming well that's bolshevik russia it's yeah but it's like tied together so so let me okay so it does since you read gibbon um and bless you for getting through that it took me almost a year to read that whole thing because it's so tough but um it's a different it's a different writing style it is a different writing style and it's but it's worth it so so when you read the older books which is especially good as we get up there in the years there they have you know because i write short punchy boom boom boom but then i have to remind myself you got to go back and read to where you read a full paragraph and you're like wait a minute i need to actually pay attention to what i'm reading the flow is a little bit different and it's a much denser kind of writing and a book length idea can be fully formed right but okay but since you're interested in rome there was this pit i mean the pivot really was not the fall of rome that was the end and you're you're giving istanbul credit for being rome uh okay but in the fifth century rome the place was invaded by the german tribes and collapsed so the big pivot though was the move from republic to empire and it kind of feels like that's where we are it but we're afraid to be an empire right but maybe what we saw two days ago is the beginning of a period we're like okay we're an empire we're embracing it that that was that's why i mean that's my hope is america you know american imperialism because i believe we're a just and moral people i believe we're a christian people i believe that the venice way i believe in like i believe that the greatest spiritual battle is the and i don't mean to sound like utopian or sound like a bolshevik myself because some of this that's why again the left and the neocons like they took all this they they ruined they ruined everything because you end up sounding like a leftist utopian or you you sound like a neocon when you say these things but i just i believe in my heart that america is the most righteous country that has ever lived that that western europe if it if it doesn't fall needs needs to remain upright and that human suffering will be reduced by what was done in venezuela so i think that's one way that i look at foreign policy is in the middle east we created human suffering on a on a scale that's catastrophic and vietnam especially too like that's one thing that always annoys me that i think the cambodian genocide should be taught in our schools because one it was because of communism and polpot and two it was our fault because we were using cambodian airspace and that's what led to polpot's rise and propping up prince cianuk and the whole thing no it was you're absolutely right so if we have a national guilt we should actually have a national guilt over the cambodian genocide and we never rebuilt it we just sort of left them to live in squalor well you know who did fix it actually was vietnam vietnam invaded in 1978 and kicked him out right yeah we've got a new partner it's a company called cowboy colostrum it's 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tucker at checkout 25 off when you use that code tucker at cowboy colostrum.com remember you mentioned you heard it here first but okay so i i guess i haven't quite figured out what i think i have a lot of thoughts obviously i'm totally opposed and have been since a rock since 2003 to anything like this on the other hand i'm thinking to myself maybe well maybe i'm not in charge of history okay that's like one thing that um and maybe it's just time to accept the reality of it so i would like to live in a small agrarian christian republic where everyone knows everyone else like that's kind of my idea of utopia that's not anywhere near what we have we live on a continent-sized country with 350 million other people and we'll probably have 500 million by the time we're old okay so and we run the at least half of the world so maybe what we're seeing is people just embracing what was already true and not like fighting against like i hate the idea of having an empire but we do right so maybe that is what's happening i don't know i'm trying to figure it out no i mean you're born in the world right that that's that's the you got an empire just roll with it be an empire like you're born into a body you're born into like a human body and these like weird things and you have to figure out how to balance being an animal and in a spirit and you didn't we didn't choose it we're born into america in a particular place in time and here's the problems that we have here are the resources that we have what you know what can we do to you know reduce as much as possible human suffering and you know govern justly as an empire and we had one we we we i mean in a way we don't have one that's the problem it's like the worst of all worlds where they invade the world invite the world i forget who coined that but that that's a favorite of pep buchanan's for sure yeah yeah it might have been steve sailor one of those guys but we had the worst of it which is oh we're going to go in and destroy your countries and then we're going to bring you back up here to do daycare welfare fraud exactly right no that's right whereas the righteous thing to do would have said we're going to invade your countries but we're actually going to share in your resources and that was one of the real i think evils of removing qaddafi was they had education they which again sounds very leftist but a lot of this is just objectively true and they had free oil more or less free petrol and now they have you know open-air slave markets so we we did the the worst we didn't build empires we destroyed other people's places and then rather than colonizing them we brought everybody up here and now we we have 40 trillion in debt scam after scam we have like it or not we have blood feuds being imported where like now you have to have an opinion about somaliland my god you know in my life as i get older i'm trying to have fewer opinions and now i have to know the difference between somalia and somaliland and then you look at the minnesota flag which is is obviously tied to somalia that that again is the worst of all worlds so if we're gonna if we're gonna do it then then we should we should do it as an empire so what does the future look like what are the next three years look like so you saw the president saying you know this worked we're gonna do it in a bunch of other countries well the the future generally versus empire building are two different things because i think the future we're we're we're on a pathway with the transhumanism the there's a fork in the road about humanity and what what what it what it even means to be a human so that is a whole other different discussion but if you mean geopolitics for example i think that we're going to continue to see these kinds of targeted strikes now the danger is that whose aim is what to remove the leadership of the country and replace it with the pro-american yeah yeah to put to you know plop one guy out um put somebody else in and if you do in places like latin america i actually think you can do it i mean trump's already talking about colombia the the mexican cartel that that's the the strange thing about all this is that the everybody says well why don't we do mexico when mexico is a full narco state they have controls the border towns in the u.s it's a completely it's a control of arizona don't they if you talk to the the turning point guys then yeah they have some pretty strong opinions about katie hobbs and and how she got in so what would a war with a cartel it's a different it's a whole different right pandora's box you're opening there but if you can remove maduro you can remove a few people you're you're sending a message to people which is so here so here's where here's why i disagree with the the neocon model and i think there's like a right a right wing worldview that's coherent and it goes like this the neocon according to the neocon model everyone is just a madman they're just madmen everywhere and pakistan they hate us for no reason they just they're just madmen and they're not rational actors putin's a madman putler that's that's the whole worldview of just the neocons and the neoliberal establishment putin's a madman and i'm like well i don't know he's 70 i read a lot about russian history with the oligarchs had taken over the country after yeltsin left you needed a strong man to come in he brought the oligarchs to heal the oligarchs were like looting the country and you you look at him and you're like this is you can call him evil that's a moral question but somebody being evil is different from whether somebody's a rational or an irrational actor putin is is acting in a way that i in my opinion is quite predictable and the most rational actor in the world and yeah of course then you look at the the moolahs and you just say they want to have their fiefdoms they don't want high iq people in iran even they're trying to get rid of as many high iq people as they possibly can this was funny actually i was at a a dinner there's a persian diaspora and in orange county and you know la huge yeah and you know not just jewish and you know the secular and the muslim and i was talking to this they're just like a good-looking couple very well educated smart and i go how did the how did you guys get out of iran you know it was like one of those things where i thought i knew something but i was revealed my own ignorance i said how did you guys get out of iran he goes oh he goes you get um and people on twitter call me a liar for this too which is like so annoying but he goes no no you basically they give you iq tests and if you're a high iq and you're too high iq they let you get educated they want you out of the country because high iq people have too much of a revolutionary risk so that that there shows you that well that's why we legalize marijuana same idea right so that that's the so i see the moolahs under a different model than the neocons do and i view them as they want to have their little fiefdoms of course they want to govern over the ashes so yeah obviously we don't want them to have become a nuclear power or whatnot but that doesn't mean you have to go in and go to war with them because oh no any day now they might just do something like crazy right that and i think that i think that's like the right-wing position is you see people you you remove the moralize the moral which most people can't do most people they want to say the evil sure nobody hates the mulas more than the persian diaspora and of course nobody hates them more so this whole idea that they're not it's like sure they're evil but then the minute you talk about an evil person engaging in rational activity then they're like oh wow so you support evil you know god i've lived this oh my god right then you're dealing with someone who shouldn't be involved in the conversation because they're not capable of like thinking clearly here's my concern i agree with i think your analysis is absolutely right i mean talk to the gulf states you think they like the mullahs no they despise them but they don't want to see them regime change necessarily because what comes next the only country that wants that is israel and not even israel it's bb it's specifically netanyahu and some of his supporters want that and they're putting enormous pressure on the administration to do it and my one my biggest concern about what just happened in venezuela is that will be seen as a template for iran like let's just take out you know the religious leadership of iran or the political leadership or the military leadership and like everything will go as well as it did in venezuela and you know maybe that's true but if it's not true the stakes are high no well that's why people have to have a a definition of what victory looks like because victory for the united states looks different than victory from other people so and this is where i think people people like lose the plot a little bit so it's in it might be in the interest of some countries for there to be chaos because if there's chaos and those people you can kind of go in you don't have to worry about it it's the interest in the united states for there not to be chaos of course that's what we say we say of course but nobody says it you know well i do constantly chaos is not in our interest yeah so so it's in our interest that if we do do regime change that we don't have we don't have chaos we do want to have a moral leadership and moral clarity and we do want to keep things you know on the right path and then other people have different interests and it's just up to us to keep pushing for the orderly the orderly governance of the world via american imperialism well wasn't that long ago that many americans thought they were inherently safe from the kinds of disasters you hear about all the time in third world countries a total power loss for example or people freezing to death in their own homes that could never happen here obviously it's america people are recalculating unfortunately because they have no choice the last few years have taught us that remember when the power grid in texas failed in the dead of winter yeah it happened and it could happen again so the government is not actually as reliable as you hope they would be and the truth is the future is unforeseeable and things do seem to be getting a little squirrely so if the grid does go down you need power you can trust last country supplies newest product is designed for exactly that the grid doctor is a 3300 watt battery backup system that will power full size appliances medical devices and tools with clean reliable power it's even emp protected that means it's shielded from lightning solar flares or an actual electromagnetic pulse event there's no gasoline no noise there's no emissions you just plug it in charge it from the wall from your vehicle or from the included 200 watt solar panel and keep going day after day taking care of yourself and the people you love is solely up to you and the amazing thing is with these new batteries we use one at home by the way is they're super easy to use there's no inverter you need to figure out on the front of it or anything like that there's like three buttons it's very easy and totally reliable highly recommended we literally use one as i said visit last country supply dot com to shop the grid doctor for power you can trust this winter last country supply dot com but undergirding all of that is the belief that the point of the u.s government is to serve the interests of american citizens correct well of course well not of course because i i mean the foreign policy leadership that i've grown up with and that i know personally that's not even in the top five well these are people that they want to play toy soldiers that's a whole that's the the neoliberal order the the neoconservative or i think neo i think we we focus too much maybe on neocons and the neoliberals who have probably done as much or or more the if you look at the biden foreign policy poking you know poking russia and moving nato east that was all neoliberalism and they they're just too rich i guess and bored and want to play checkers and chess with other people's lives but the the trump view is that we're starting from the american position gas prices are down oil from venezuela like we need it we have a deficit that we're never going to pay back like if you if you take a step back and you just embrace it all you you also people always ask me how i feel and i go well i i go from optimism to despair and in a split second because if you if you look at the national debt we're not going to pay that there's no way to pay it back that it's impossible there's no there's no way to pay it back so what happens do we hyperinflate our currency do we fault on our debt trump is going to try resource extraction so we get venezuelan oil we drive down costs here we get cheap energy here well apparently ai lead to maybe some kind of deflation who knows people have their own opinions on that that's still being hotly contested and in that way imperialism can be a win-win because the venezuelans can be better off we extract our share of it maybe maybe that's utopia and maybe that's pie in the sky but that what's the other answer the the i mean the other answer is more the other answer is like dude charlie kirk was assassinated charlie some guy was just at jd vance's house in columbia or cincinnati banging on the window maybe shooting at it all the details aren't there the the alternative is it's a it's like a bolshevik revolution the alternative is anarcho-tyranny which is what we already have under the democrat rule and it's that's really bad the the the the alternative if we don't if we don't fix it you're going to have more class resentment we do have a neo-bolshevik movement in the united states unabashed marxist when the maduro thing happened it was interesting you saw the brandon johnson chicago's mayor mayor karen bass who was in africa while the palisades was burning she was taking some kind of vacation mandami and they're all sort of with maduro so you have this global marxist movement which is you know the red green alliance which gets tossed around but some of the stuff these guys say in the think tanks have actually if you read into it enough i think a lot of that really is accurate so you have this red green alliance of third world thinking with neo-bolshevism or marxism however people want to characterize it and they do not have a good plan for the u.s they want to they want to loot it they want to destroy it they have a deep hatred for whatever reason of white people white people of european descent are just absolutely hated hated by all of these forces so and not just by them by the neocons we don't hate europeans too for some reason i'm not exactly sure why but um christians i feel like kind of everyone that is my frustration with all this talk of anti-semitism which i oppose escape speech saying why i oppose it on christian grounds i am sincerely opposed to anti-semitism and racism and hating anybody on the basis of his blood i'm just opposed to it against my religion but like the main form of institutionalized hate is not anti-semitism it's anti-white hate in the united states and like why does nobody say that well the affirm i mean i remember with police and fire hiring that was in the 80s where if you're a white male adam carol had talked about that before but he tried to be a firefighter of course and they just said well you're you're a white man how about jp morgan same thing it's in every part of american society so yeah the the white man has been the white man that's a funny way of putting it but white men have been hated for decades and then they've been the world's punching bag until of course you need a delta force mission they post a picture and it's all jacked white guys with a few latinos and always has with tattoos and and you think well these the whole generation was was hollowed out and you you just do not see and for me that's a litmus test for 2028 is anyone who runs for president but won't specifically condemn anti-white hate by name is not even in the well jd vance just did that not even you're not even in the mix because if you could you see ron de santis saying calling out anti-white hate by name de santis is an interesting i i think he would have three or four years yes i totally agree his evolution his evolution has been he lost it he lost um he needs to listen to people like christina pushaw more and i agree the the problem i noticed a lot of people get sucked into donor world they get they get in the west palm beach they get around the richies and i've seen that happen to a lot of people as you just you cannot spend whether it's the tech guys or the finance guys the west palm beach people the silicon valley people can't spend too much time around the richies man they're uh i totally they're not they're not they're not living in reality they have all these weird pet projects that don't have any kind of connection to downstream reality yes they're glib and out of touch and they they're gonna they're gonna steer you aside you have to just stay with you have to just stay with the people man you gotta stay with the people so ken griffin is not a reliable bellwether of american public opinion he bought this like he bought this uh i think tyrannosaurus rex fossil or something for 75 million dollars yeah people who people who are like i have so much money that i just want a dinosaur fossil or dinosaur skeleton in my atrium might might not be the people you want to take political advice from no probably the last people so do you think desantis is obviously going to run in the primary you think desantis cruise it's going to be an open field because there always is because that's how they get media time and sell books and everything but the what do you think it'll look like the the table the table the table well one is it depends if we get depends what happens in midterms and how many impeachments trumps gets hit with if they can't keep the midterms although elon's back in the game so maybe maybe republicans keep the midterms but i think the house i think they if if with elon you can with elon's money you can and it's just that's a sad thing to say but that's just again that's maybe maybe like that's where it goes back to like i'm an i'm a pragmatist on the idealist yeah get money out of politics okay well that's nice um no we need to get we need to basically but like it's funny because i have all my friends are pro israel basically and my advice to them is has been like a singular one you need to guys need to just calm down because the anti-seminants are so moronic right now just let them talk because everything they say is off-putting to anyone with a high aq but if you come with rancor then that's just you're you're muddy in the field and i go to us just be like stephen miller stephen miller likes israel a lot wants israel to prosper and everything but when people think of stephen miller all they think about is this guy's amazing you know like stephen miller wakes up trying to do things for america and then if you do that we don't really care what israel does or at least i don't um most of us wouldn't or if there would be certainly less rancor around it and if they would just fund things like then everybody would be better off so elon he just writes huge checks and if that side wrote bigger checks for republicans to just be republicans that's what that's what i've been tell him i was like look you're gonna get 80 90 percent of what you want if you just keep republicans in the house you're gonna get that the alternative for you guys is aoc and mondami and all these other people versus people like me who are just realistic and pragmatic about it and people like jd who's like who's the same thing you just he's a pragmatist you got to accept that you just got to accept that not everybody is going to be an ideologue about it but you can still win without people being ideologues you can win which is good old good old-fashioned alliances where you help out you pitch in where you don't see the trump coalition is so broken so fractured because i do think the neocons are intentionally breaking it because they want to keep jd from becoming i don't think it's working though i mean i'm old i don't think it's working i'm old head from 2015 this is all a repeat of 2015 is a repeat of the desantis when he ran in the primary same talking points that the same people playing the same kind of games so i don't um i just see it as this is the third season of 2015 you know 2015 2022 2023 and now now it's back again so i don't see it and the the way the politics lines up on this stuff especially in like 2028 is you got to look at it as the there's just not there's the problem you know i gotta i always want to be careful what i say is that not because i'm like afraid of being canceled because i've been i mean i've been through the a thousand times but the they have the people who really see israel as a key issue just need to understand that hey man you're going to get like most of what you want but if you take take it so that we can't win in 2028 with a republican because you create so much acrimony and division and suppress the vote then you're going to get a bad democrat you're going to get a bad democrat and you're going to get maybe a bad democrat congress so people need to not not behave in this kind of way that's because it's not helpful i just think of things like politics am i being am i being helpful to the country and i'm being am i being helpful for 2026 and 2028 and i think that's how everybody needs needs to view the map like are you are you being helpful like are you going to get what you want if you continue to behave this way you don't need to be an economist to see what's happening the dollar is in trouble it's getting weaker it's sad but we're not in charge of it so we have to respond appropriately in ways to protect our families when paper money dies it's going to be replaced by programmable digital currency or gold gold survives the same americans who think they're protecting themselves with gold are the ones getting ripped off by big gold dealers after we left corporate media we got offered tens of millions of dollars to promote gold companies how'd they get the money to spend that much on marketing because they're scamming their customers we didn't want anything to do with that so we sought an honest broker and together we formed a precious metals company that you can actually trust it's called battalion metals at battalion metals.com we publish actual spot prices we're totally transparent about the vig what we take and we treat everyone with honesty so if you've been watching what's happening you know it's not just about money it's about sovereignty and holding something that endures and cannot be manipulated or taken from you so if you've been waiting for the right time to act this is it visit battalion metals.com well it depends what you want so if you run around calling people nazis the chance that you're going to convince them to become nazis is pretty high i mean that's just very obvious if you're doing that and so maybe they want more nazis there there's a there's a segment of people but i it's it's much smaller the that's that it's the loud segment it's well if you want if you want to if the incentive structure is different so if you're in media and you want to maximize a certain kind of sales funnel where they get as many people as they can as many eyes on them that they want to be acrimonious and they want to throw bombs because that that's the business right but if you're more political you want to think about like how's how is this gonna help us achieve an agenda right how how is this going to help the country how is this gonna help them get what they want that that's what i'm trying to see i'm just trying we have this alliance that won in 2024 the popular vote which i knew trump was gonna win we have mutual friend actually i'll tell you i'll tell you when when we stop um when we stop filming but he was so blackpilled about the election right and i said no he's gonna win we'll know that night he's gonna trump's gonna win we're gonna know that night he goes crazy i go i promise you promise you and election night has like well who told everybody the only thing i didn't see is i didn't think we were gonna win the we you know i didn't think trump was gonna win the popular vote so we have this alliance we have maha you have the og like maga people the you know the wild energy they brought in there was always this boisterous male energy but then they brought a bunch more of that and then you had the the post october i don't think trump wins if october 7th doesn't happen to be honest and i said this at the time because when i when october 7th happened they realized oh this is this is what the left really is right and i do think a lot of them weren't a lot of the pros really people were not paying attention to what the left kind of had become and because i remember i would talk about the red green alliance and people's eyes would sort of like glaze over like let's you know that sounds stupid and so you have they have the post 07 people you have the they don't want their kids trance you have maha you have the nationalists you have the populace you get the tech guys you get the wealth tax guys so we it's a it's a coalition and everybody the rappers the the salvadorans the other rappers you have the the venezuelan the cubans and it's a it's a political coalition that has to be kept together and i think every coalition partner needs to to look out for others and some coalition partners can push for themselves more and lose sight of things so my opinion you know foreign policy and everything else has gotten too much attention maha hasn't gotten enough attention rfk jr has sort of done done what he has the domestic issues there's only so much trump can do because judges are blocking him but that that's another concern of mine is that domestic issues are getting blocked and then that's going to create fractures in the coalition but i do think the can i ask though if you i'm the reason i'm have such like a tepid not interesting response to what happened two days ago is because i think it's like a pivot point in history and i don't fully understand what it means so i don't want to get over my skis until i have a better sense of what i think it means but um it is a totally new way of conducting diplomacy slash foreign policy slash military action like this is a new thing because trump didn't dress it up with a lot of lying about democracy or human rights he's like no we want the oil and like this guy's bad and we're taking him out and we're gonna run it never no one alive has seen anything like that before in the united states so you wonder and that's why i'm saying i think we're for good or bad fully in the empire stage of civilizational development the republic stage is over no one cares about congress so no just like don't we care about the roman senate i wonder like how long until that same governing style applies to domestic policy where we lived it we lived it man like we lived under biden well you're right before you flesh that out like people forget we lived in like people like me lived in hell ricky vaughn was a i remember when douglas mackie was arrested what a good raid in florida chased down with guns i followed all these court cases of the the blacks for trump guy was chased down by unidentified fbi agents they just started chasing down with a gun because they obviously wanted to initiate a shootout and gaslight him into a a shootout thousand plus j6ers people who committed at most misdemeanor trespass around up we we lived under anarcho tyranny lake and riley's murdered we have murders happening la is again anarcho tier for those who don't know because you don't live on twitter thank god god bless you is you know i think i forget who coined the phrase the name escapes but you would know and the idea is that if you're a a law-abiding citizen you live under a state of tyranny where you're going to need a jaywalking ticket that's right but there can be a homeless encampment right next to the don't walk sign but you're the one who's going to get the ticket while the encampment's there and that's that's what we lived under an imperial dictatorship where everybody was just like oh yeah like when like have you talked to you had you have you had like to talk to the kids yet and everybody charlie posobic everybody had that conversation with the kids which is like hey just so you know like daddy might be taken away for a couple years and you know he's going to go away and if anybody like shows up don't do anything uh you know because they might try to shoot you they might want to put a flashbang grenade and in the house they might want to kill your kids in front of you when when they raided michael cohen's house even though you know cohen ended up turning up what they did to him was was just disgraceful they were going through his daughter's ipads in front of him this is wicked stasi stuff it just didn't get really any media coverage because i didn't even know they did that no no that's one reason i think cohen sort of sort of broke him they just took all the ipads out of the little kids room and they're just like taunting him they threatened to send don jr to prison for the rest of his life for he didn't do anything john eastman a respected member of the bar constitutional law professor disbar in california jeffrey clark great career in law big law kirkland and ellis they're trying to take his law license in dc one one thing after another and it got almost no coverage and no attention because the media would cover downplay it or they would they would lie about it and that was that was like the world dude like i've had that conversation with my kids they're too young to understand like i remember like because i don't have any money like i have no money and people like well you know once you have any money it's like my family has all my money because i know that i could just be stripped of everything any day even you know even now that if you're a target of the regime you could just like wake up you're like okay well i guess i'm fucked and but on the other hand you're just like my god how have i been boiled in the pot for this long that i've just accepted that is the norm and i think that's something that is is a problem with all of us is we're just we just took it for like oh charlie kirk i remember charlie kirk got shot i remember posobic calls he's like dude they killed charlie everybody thought they would just kill somebody else first but everybody knew they were going to kill somebody everybody knew it this is how we live our life like i live my life knowing i could be killed any day yeah i live my life under biden knowing well you know i could any day anything any day something could happen i know every day that i wake up just to a shit show of false it doesn't it just doesn't matter that that's the way that you live and as as like fucked up as it is and and the reason our people i think don't talk about it is you just you have a certain ability a stiff upper lip you don't want to you don't want to sound like a victim but that's exactly right that's not it's not like nor it's like it's a weird it's like enraging in a way like no this is not how it's supposed to be in america where you know that any given day like you you might be taken away from your children because of of politics and because of how rotten and corrupt everything is i i couldn't agree more obviously i live a life exactly like the one you described on the other hand i think it's essential to cling to your nobility and refuse to become a victim and refuse to act like seth dylan or whoever like constantly talking about oh the threats against me people are mean to me come on you know you chose to be in this just man up he did but he shouldn't have to no i look i agree no one should threaten seth dylan i i'm totally opposed to threatening him or anyone else just saying like talking about yourself is that that's our but i know that's our problem though see that's the that's how they got us in this catch 22 which is well nobody can complain because we're you know mainly men and we're still we take it out we don't complain but then they get away with everything and people go wait a minute you had to say like i think that most people if you told them oh yeah like i remember when i was when douglas mackie got wrongfully arrested and charged for a crime he didn't commit and it's been proven now we didn't commit the crime that i remember sitting out with my kids and i go hey kids i just you know want to let you know um you know talk to my wife hey like you know here's your money here's what the money is you know it's all in like your name i don't have anything and tell my kids hey kids like they might take daddy away like the bad guys might come and get daddy and you know it'll be okay and everything dude that if we don't talk about it then nobody knows right right so but we're like well i don't want to fucking cry i'm a real man i'm a da da da da it's like great and then nobody knows and then people get like wait a minute john eastman a distinguished law professor wrote a memo that wasn't even acted on he just lost his life lost his position at chapman his standing in the world even his law license his ability to like earn a living this is like this is what is happening so we do need to bitch more to be honest that's our problem that's the exploit and whatever our dna is or whatever our operating software is or whatever our genetics is that's our exploit is we just sort of you just take the hits you take the hitch you endure the weight of life dad doesn't complain that's what you do and then they're taking and then they take our country and then they fuck us up like one by one so i remember like some guy showed up to fuentes's place to kill him and then end up killing somebody else down the street shows up people like well they didn't even know it was like because you're not supposed to talk about it like and fuentes his credit yeah i mean i gave him a chance to talk about it and whatever you think of fuentes but he did not marinate in his victimhood at all yeah some loony goes up to cat turns house tries to get him they go after benny johnson they go after seth dylan candace owens has had threats charlie kirk gets killed so i i think it's there there's a way to to talk about these and that's why so the charlie kirk thing really was a frustrating thing for me because well i mean there's a tragic thing you know like pressure that sounds so like shallow um i i just thought that people would realize they're they're like they're hunting us for sport all of us tucker they're hunting you if they could get shapiro they would get shapiro if they could get walsh they could get walsh if they could get candace they could get candace and it ain't the israelis and it ain't the jews that are doing it it's a violent feral terrorist you know bolshevik left and they would get all of us if they could so whatever acrimony we have which is like i'm not a unity guy i'm a guy who likes you know likes the mix maybe too much but it's like dude they're gonna kill us they're gonna kill all of us and we need to figure out we need to figure out some kind of way to coexist with one another understanding that the threat against us is existential and they would the the left if they could kill seth dylan they'd be glad to kill him if they could kill you they'd be glad to kill you to them that's just another another notch on their belt or a point on the scoreboard so what's i mean what's the administration doing with this that i mean that was that was my problem with the trump's first term is the political violence against trump supporter because again we're just supposed to deal with it just deal with it was the completely almost completely ignored during his first term is it still being ignored under my definition it is yeah they're they're arresting some people there there's more happening than the first term but the the response is not what i would like to see so the claim when charlie was murdered was this was intifa or some intifa adjacent uh person or organization i don't i don't know if that's true i don't know anything about it i think it's absolutely true uh i don't know that but and i'm i don't have any other theories i just i don't even understand the story but but if people said it was true so like okay where's the round of ventifa so they're uh sorry you got a dog sneezing right there the good puppy so the no i'm i'm a i mean i think it was tyler robinson i think a 22 year old man on a mission is a very dangerous thing and that i i think that there were other people in those discord servers and there were people tweeting something big is going to happen tomorrow and after tomorrow charlie won't be around anymore so i'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem to be much interest and maybe those people were just guessing or maybe they were trolling but there doesn't seem to be much interest in finding out who the who those other people why do you think that's well it doesn't make any sense to me i i always i always go back to the garland texas mass shooting which is to me this is like the skeleton key of it all so pamela geller who's very much uh pro-israel about as hardcore as you can be on the issue did a draw muhammad contest and there was going to be a bunch of other people also like very pro-israel and a jihadi was going to shoot the place up the he it was texas he got taken out but by accident of faith or an accident of fate a local law enforcement officer pulled over an fbi agent who was fleeing the scene got the guy's phone and the the text message to the jihadi said tear up texas sounds unbelievable it's 100 true sander grassley has asked for information twice from ray and garland has been stonewalled i don't know why cash patel won't release it i've asked everybody up as high up the food chain as you can get why we can't get it and what's the answer my my belief is that there's that mk ultra never-ended co intel pro mk ultra was of course the mind control experiments they conduct on people where the the book chaos covered this and great detail for people who are curious about that about the charles manson murders the manson murders and then there was that air force guy who was drugged up and killed somebody and that didn't even make sense and i even know about that well that book was completely mind-blowing and i do think they still have whatever armor that is whether that's within the fbi or some other dark site within the intelligence community i i'm certain that that that that still exists so because of that you don't get you don't get you're not going to get any information about that because i do think there would be some kind of dark cop because what a lot of people again it's just the title of the book shows the agenda it's just chaos get out get everybody afraid get everybody panicked usher in more surveillance technology usher in a surveillance state bring in anarcho-tyranny where if you're law-abiding everything you do is monitored by flock and all these camera traffic cameras everything you do is monitored but if you're a drug addict on the street you're you have free reign you do anything you want this was uh the bolshevik method there was a solzhenitsyn called alexander solzhenitsyn quote where it went i don't have the exact quote but the substance of it was your punishment for having a knife was different for the thieves when you had a knife it was terrorism when the thief had it it was just his way of life and that's what we're living under now with the modern anarcho-tyranny so what do they have in common like why does this same phenomenon reoccur yeah it's it's the the battle the the battle between people say good and evil but you would just say like logos and chaos logos the divine order the order of god the unison of people the fellowship of people versus the chaos and the acrimony and the evil of the the dark one satan demons every every religious tradition has a even dualistic religions or polytheistic religions have chaos gods right so even if you're not monotheistic which i'm monotheistic obviously but everybody has had those the chaos agents so chaos is destroying the divine order and the divine communion of people so you don't see this as political battles but as manifestations of a spiritual battle it's yes the spirit yeah the political is what you see the spiritual is what you talk about and people will make fun of you and say you're crazy i don't think they make fun of you anymore do they much less so they so you had a tweet about this yesterday i think here's your tweet if you were a demon with dominion over the planet and you wanted to increase the amount of human suffering across the world you would eliminate the white population yeah yeah that so you see you see what's happening the the death of whites their mass massive contraction as a racial group globally you see that as a manifestation of the spiritual war ireland really is the rosetta stone i think in all of this i agree because you can again even if right or wrong you could at least rationalize rhodesia was an evil apartheid state and they had to give it over to mugabe and it became zimbabwe but you know what they did the right thing and had a bad outcome or south africa for that i don't agree with that but you could there's a chain of logic okay they did the right thing that ended apartheid it led to a bad result maybe they could have transitioned it better but there's a a to b to c thing they're right ireland they were colonized by the the white irish were colonized by the white british they were starved their resources were plundered they had the potato they had the potato famine they lived like churches were desecrated churches were desecrated they were an enslaved people but they have to be punished oh i agree why do the irish right to me that's when if people think that tweet sounds crazy or any of this is crazy then you have to tell me why that why did the irish have to pay i totally agree and that that gives up the whole game gives up the whole game so this is a manifestation of the spiritual war the destruction of whites yeah and and then why that is i i don't know yet i'll i'll still unravel it but you can't you can't deny it when you look at ireland and you look what is happening we look what's happening globally you look what is happening in the u.s and it has been happening for decades but again that goes back to well you don't want to talk about how you could be killed any day and that's just something you live with and i just live with it knowing that at any moment i could be gone removed one way or another how does that change the way you live that knowledge the you when you know when you know it's like it's like memento mori so the the arrogance or whatever the because i pretend to be arrogant on the internet sometimes but people who know me sort of find that kind of funny but the there's a there's one there's like a deep weight that you carry just a deep weight where you know that what you do has consequences and you need to really focus on doing the right thing it has consequences for yourself in the country because if we do lose the amount of human suffering is going to be immeasurable in the u.s and globally it's like when you read about the hull the more you read about the cambodian genocide you read about the the gulags it's just a scale of human suffering beyond beyond human understanding and where the the remaining bulwark against it so you're you're just left with a sense of like and then you're you're um like i have i have a thing kind of a bit i do online although it's really true is i have like i have a war on fun so you don't get to have fun like i don't get to have fun that doesn't mean i don't enjoy my life it doesn't mean that i don't have a cigar and mountain bike and do other things but i just i don't get to have fun that's not in the cards to me i don't get to have fun i have to live like a serious person who knows i could be killed that my friends could be killed in the case of charlie a friend will be killed that even people like seth and them that i may not see eye to eye with like they could get killed that any of us that could be killed on any given day and so in a way it's like being in it's not being in a combat zone in a way but it is a way of it is a form of warfare so i just i don't get to like have fun i don't i don't get to like goof off or live so it gives your life meaning in some ways it gives it gives your life yeah meaning is a complicated subject but it gives your life a you certainly have a purpose right where you know that and this is true of everybody or how people should live is what you do does have significance and consequence and you do have to you do have to make it count that sounds i mean in some ways worse but in most ways better than living without that knowledge that it could end well that that's the meaning that's the meaning kind of paradox i think that's why some people call it the meaning crisis then before that jonathan hate wrote a book the happiness hypothesis and meaning is this concept where if you chase meaning you can't find meaning but you find meaning by living in a certain way and then you go oh this is so like this is meaning so i give you i have these weird it's like a hyper reality you just did a film on this i should i should we're working on it yeah we're in post we're yeah so okay so yeah explain this through that lens okay well the you know you get when you get older you want to do things that are interesting and hard and i think doing a movie on the meaning of life is about as about as hard as you get right and there so you would say like what is the meaning of life which i've asked everybody and you know people have their own answers but sometimes it's good to sort of attack it from the inverse which is what would be a meaningless life a meaningless life would be all this suffering of yourself and others all the human suffering it was just the way it is we were just animals and we were bred by some kind of alien species to harvest gold and if people got harmed or genocided or whatever that was just there's no reckoning at the end that that to me gives me nightmares to think there's no reckoning or no so then you would say well that would be meaningless okay that's i'm chasing whatever that is so then you start to think of meaning who what is that what meaning is is a communion with god it's a catharsis it's that whatever it was whatever you know there's a saying like the only way out is through it was like whatever this is that you're going to get through it and there is a divine evening out of everything and that everything did have a point and everything did matter and everything happened for a reason not because you're a actor who doesn't have agency but because it was part of as part of the rise like i got chunks taken out of me there's no like there's you've had chunks everybody has you know again we're not supposed to talk about it because we're so you know macho macho men but like i think i'm like sometimes i'm just like dude i'm tired man like it is just like having to live like that especially under the biden regime i am the censorship regime where as an adult man you can't even say what you believe because your whole life will be destroyed you might not be able to have a bank account right that that was like the way you kind of lived and you have chunks taken out of you and to think that that was for nothing right like losing which is how meaning ties into i think the the political melee is losing would be the most meaningless thing in the world there's this painting somebody posted and i'm i'm going to get it reproduced in and um oil painting and it's of when the bolsheviks took over the palace at the bolshevik revolution and it just shows this it just fills me with this like rage you're just staring at evil and i i look at like this is what losing looks like losing looks like you're lined up next to your kids and they start shooting you but the kids don't die right away so they bayonet your kids in front of you that's what losing looks like people people used to say oh certain of it you're crazy that sounds crazy i remember they say that 2015 2016 oh you're so hyperbole now everybody that's what losing looks like losing doesn't mean oh you're gonna have a wealth tax and you're gonna have to pay a little bit more taxes losing is you are lined up in the basement and they are killing your kids in front of you that that is what like losing is well to me that's meaningless to me that's the antithesis of like whatever the meaning of life is so the connection between really meaning and what do you mean well i don't know i mean the basis of christianity is this guy who christians believe was god who came down and then like got brought up on false charges and tortured to death but that he did that so we didn't have to he took on the burden a lot of people take the christ martyrdom as some kind of message that we should become martyrs and i i always say there's been one martyr christ died on the cross i ain't dying on the cross i ain't a martyr christ did that and he took on the sins of mankind and he did that for us i'm i'm not i'm not here to to be crucified and take on take on the sins of mankind that that's not me if anything it was it's almost it's almost like uh egotistical to think that i should you know that i should be a martyr and that that would be that would be a way to go so i i reject martyrdom theology fully interesting yeah so what it so what is the meaning if the meaning is not getting lined up against the wall with your kids the meaning is communion divine communion meaning is divine communion everything is divine communion the interacting with god interacting with god in the downstream the communion of people so i'll have these moments of like hyper reality where i'm like wrapped up in my own bullshit and oh you know what if i did this and you know in your own head and then i'm on the couch with my kids and there's just like a moment of like stillness and never lasts there's just like moment of like stillness not when you have four it doesn't last no well in my own bullshit fucked up brain too you know like a lot of you know there's a lot of us we make prisons of our own mind right of course and we the demons steal our joy you're just you're having a moment and then they're like what about this their deep state's coming for you or you know one one thing after another and there's just these moments of like stillness and you know this is what it's about you know that but that's as because of our primitive brains or whatever our problems are probably because we're not in the garden of eden is we we just can't maintain divine connection the monks can but it's a great aesthetic i always get that word wrong asceticism i always get that bad yeah i'm bad with my no t asceticism and but they have it's a constant effort you know that's why you know that they're living on a pillar of salt or in a cave yeah yeah and it's like the arrow prayer is like god you know jesus christ have mercy on me i'm a set you know you have to constantly be connected with the divine divine and then lean into your heart more to distract us from the egoism which but you have to have some kind of egoism if you live in the world you can't just not participate in the world so there's this tension between divine connection which means surrendering yourself to the full presence of god right versus okay but i have to like pay my bills dude you know like i have to yeah i have to make my way in this world then those are constantly attention but then something and this is probably why there's a more of a rise for like eastern orthodoxy and and older religious religious traditions and christianity as the and and i love protestants so no no offense to the protestants but protestantism is very was very waspish waspish it's like by the book the bible says this and like here's the scriptures and it's very much of the mind christian apologetics oh well you think this is there the trinity and it's like arguing back and forth but you're like existing in mind whereas the eastern traditions and by eastern i don't mean hinduism but even though hinduism has a christianity but eastern orthodoxy needs to christianity is also about the the knowledge of the heart and the tension that you feel every day like uh every day i'm i just feel a great spiritual tension where i don't like if you asked me are you going to go to heaven or hell i said i don't god help me i don't know i don't know like are you a good person a bad person god help me i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't have a good answer to that it makes it weird too when like people go at you because you're just like how do you know if i'm gonna defend myself maybe you know maybe i am you know like what am i am and and but you can find a certain amount of meaning in that the there's like a certain amount of meaning of confusion like maybe that's how it was supposed to be that we are spirits and human bodies because the if you you know if you read your old philosophy there's debate of mind-body dualism and there's there's a sense that we've all had that am i a body am i a mind well god we're both we're we are both we're a mind and a body and or a spirit and a body and there's going to be tension between this that we you know we wrestle against the flesh and so maybe that's the right answer maybe the right answer is to not be so sure that you're right and that you're such a righteous and holy person and maybe the right answer and say i don't know i honestly don't know humility is always the right answer you're not god but you could be proud of humility you know there's a great of course well of course benjamin frank is one of the best favorite writers and he said he would keep a list of the virtues and he said i was i would he said i i've achieved all virtues but i found that i myself became proud of my humility and i realized like that was gonna get me so yeah the yeah so there is there is like a meaning crisis because they're that's why we have the opioid epidemic yes we have people but even people who are successful drug overdose so they blow up their family lives because they're they're thinking is this really all there is oh i i did the right things and so even if you end up in a success beer you're still having those nights one well maybe especially and maybe that describes the politics you were talking about earlier where a lot of a ruling class is just bored and let's let's hurt people just to shake it up a little bit yeah a lot i think a lot of them are driven by demonic spirits and those people i think it's less of a less of a meaning crisis and it's more of a like an evil an evil animating force okay so how do you recognize that what there's got to be a difference between just being wrong which i have done many times probably even today and being animated by an evil spirit the angel and demon on your shoulder yeah i mean that's where the that's where the discernment that people talk about so often is something that i thought i think about every you know so who do you who do you look at from afar and perceive to be controlled by evil spirits most i mean when i go to dc although it felt a little bit but i felt like i had exorcism recently is i remember you go to dc and you just feel you just just like what is this yeah what is this demonic place this place is the playground playground of the demons the whole the whole place the whole place like just to name one person would be to not do justice for the demonic forces at work in dc even recently if you look in the department of justice have you ever looked at the occult artwork and at doj no that i'll show you some pictures next time next time you're at doj go get a tour and go look at all the occult artwork and uh why is there a cult artwork at the department of justice that's it shows by the way that's because it because they take the they take their religion seriously we might not take our religion seriously but they take it seriously the the bad guys take their religion quite seriously and they have they have a religion they have a god their god is in our god their god's the anti and the inverse of our god but they absolutely have a religion their occult artwork is everywhere the it's mortifying and when you when you get the tour you can probably find the pictures online so that's what we're we're up that's what we're up against what's on the dollar bill yeah well the some of that yeah the occult symbolism is a complicated one because like is we had um jonathan pageau's and it was interviewed for meaning and i was like i'm like ever since with ayahuasca i'm like obsessed with what is the serpent mean because under the kind of the mainline protestant understanding the serpent tempted eve the serpent is bad the snakes are evil serpents not good it's more complicated than that so and he's an orthodox christian so he he wrote an article the serpents of orthodoxy where he goes because there's there was a staff with two serpents moving around there you know there's dna there was even before the the double helix structure of dna was discovered there was uh two serpents wrapped around that was sort of for sure but was understood um you know ayahuasca the cosmic serpent a lot of people see serpents and that you know that's a whole you've seen serpents while doing ayahuasca i felt felt it like moving through me just like flowing flowing through me serpents snake oh yeah yeah yeah so that doesn't i mean i'm i'm no shaman but that doesn't sound good well that's what sends you on these like quests so so we wouldn't be having this conversation if i because for one thing you know if for christians ayahuasca is like strictly forbidden so i don't i don't want to seem like i'm glamorizing it in any way shape or form but like there was i we have gone on multiple ayahuasca journeys over the years and for me it's been completely transformed my heart it's transformed how i see my children it's the way the way like interact with the world that got me interested in christianity again because well so the thing is god can meet you wherever you are right which is why there is good and evil so it isn't to say there's no such thing as good and evil but god god can meet you wherever you are and god ought god can go anywhere and meet you wherever you are so in my case i was not someone who i never had any kind of faith because i never felt anything i would i would go to church and i grew up very christian and i would like try to feel it i was like what do these people have like there's just not there's just isn't it what is it that they feel like is everybody in on something that i'm not in on is everybody faking like i'm faking because i don't believe anything and that was because i had no whatever whatever sixth sense people have for god i didn't have i didn't have the god gene and then i remember you know first time drinking tea and being catapulted to the spirit world and i was like okay the spirit world is real that's okay that's not even up for debate now to the point where it doesn't even offend me when people are atheists or don't believe in i was like well i didn't believe in it either i had to see it with my own eyes you know paul he had to be knocked over you know to blinded yeah he had so for me that was like my my paul moment where i was like okay well somehow i ended up here drinking tea with no belief at all in god or the spiritual realm at all and now i absolutely know it's real and what you know went through a number of things and you know if you want to go into all that but i i do like why did you do ayahuasca in the first place for the wrong reason which was for the ride you know what was hunter thompson said buy the ticket take the ride yeah so many people just sit around ruminating all day or daydreaming all day maybe i'll do this maybe i'll do this i've always been a just buy the ticket take the ride what's it like buy the ticket take the ride so i thought well i mean i've done a lot of things in life before and i felt like i i felt like uh i was pretty sure of myself that i knew how to live and was arrogant in a lot of ways and i thought well you know i've done everything else like might as well just do ayahuasca you know by everything else i don't mean drugs i just mean like i was so full of myself and my own ego that i just thought i knew so much about life and i was such a wonderful person that obviously i would just do this because that's what people who are so you know so great so great dude right i'm so great i'll just do this like other thing and it like broke my heart broke my heart over and over again the whole night just like broke my heart and the so the way the way it works is your you know you drink the tea and you just kind of like look around okay i think that's a mistake and then you sort of like you kind of like start to fall under and you venture to the spirit world but you don't it's not like you're here and i'm walking around la la la i'm in the spirit world you're taken to a place where you have no free will you have no power you are more insignificant than an insect on this world and you start to journey and you know experience various things so so one i'll give you an example because it's kind of hard to explain but i remember like i'm drinking the tea and and sometimes you have like a little bit of a light show when you when you go and go into the spirit world you hear like a buzzing sound like bees and then you see like a little bit of light a little vapor on the side like and then you get the dmt sort of light show that people associate with a psychedelic experience that's the least significant part of the night but a lot of times you start to get the light show and you think oh okay i'm into somewhere but there's a sense of like there's me and i'm an m into something and you you know you go through there and then you become completely disoriented you you wake up and you look you know where am i at first where am i so i remember i woke up i go where i look around because you know you're laying down you can't walk around you're laying down i look up and i go where am i where am i where am i i go oh yeah i'm mike cernovich and i'm in this place i'm on this mat and i got dropped off and then i walked in here and i saw this person and then i came and i drank the tea okay cool it's like you're reassuring yourself close my eyes wake up where am i oh i'm mike cernovich i'm in this room and i came in oh yeah i got dropped off i'm doing ayahuasca okay cool okay cool close eyes wake up mike cernovich where am i close my eyes wake up i'm uh where am i wake up what the fuck ah dead dead there is no i dead dead and as i'm falling down into like wherever i'm falling into i see like my kids surface and my wife surface and i was for all purposes dead i was overwhelmed with the feeling that i was dead it's like i'm dying i'm dead there was no i i'm there wasn't even an i who's experiencing and i'm dead and then like all i could think of was like are my kids gonna be okay is my wife gonna be okay are people gonna be okay how is that so foolish how was i so foolish how how i was so i remember like when i funded my kids like college fund i was like okay like my kids are set like i can die you know like what do i need to be around for like because i grew up poor like then you learn that's your own trauma and everything i was like okay like my kids are good my wife's good like everybody's good you know everybody's good i got they're me taking care of whatever happens to me you know because part of this is like you know knowing that you could be killed or or framed any day and i'm like okay everybody be okay and i remember i'm dying i just heard a voice that you fool you fool they're not okay they're not okay because of money because you set up money like no they're not okay where what is wrong with you and i was just left with this sense of i just i'm a fool and i live my life foolishly and i can't believe that i was such a fool and i'm dead now and it's like too late and then eyes closed and then i wake up and then i'm like puking in a bucket like you know so they call like a spiritual purge and i remember being like oh god i'm still alive i'm still alive like looking around you know like looking at this bucket like i'd never been you know everybody's afraid of throwing up on ayahuasca i'm like oh you will that will be the best part of the night that will be that you will be thanking god that you're alive like you know throwing up in a bucket and i was like oh god okay i'm alive alive and then but then that's just like that was five minutes that was just five minutes and then you like go back under and then it's like another thing another catharsis like another like time loop so i remember i get up and i look around and there's this woman walking around and she's carrying the buckets because you know people are throwing up and everybody's sick and you just so you have kind of the the shaman guy or facilitator and then you have like the helper and there's this person you know she's walking around and she's carrying a bucket carrying i wake up and i look and i go oh there she is carrying the bucket and then close my eyes you come back up time loop so time loop means like i'm reliving this moment with you and i remember reliving this moment with you but i'm like stuck in it like groundhog day time loop and this first time it happened to me and that's a real like mind fuck so i get up and like oh she's like carrying things okay she's cleaning up after people and then i thought you know how nice fall fall asleep wake back up i go man look at she's like so helpful and i couldn't do that like i couldn't clean up after puke on other people i just i don't know how they do this and then i wake up and i'm in the time loop again i'm like what what like why am i in this time loop you know and like you start to feel like you're going insane like why am i stuck in this time loop and i close my and i put up and he goes said you don't even know her name you never introduced yourself to her you didn't talk to her you don't talk to people you just look through people you don't get to no people you're so arrogant this person is doing something you could never do because you don't have the humility you're so you could never clean up after other people you don't give a shit you don't give a shit this and but you'd even like look this person in the eyes and just say like hey you know what's your name like how'd you how'd you get here you just came in here to drink your tea selfishly like the arrogant prick that you are and because you wanted to take the ride you know you want to take the ride and you're just a bad person i was like what the fuck you know and then so that was more or less my night and you see demons at one point over and over again oh yeah that was so you can see d so you can see demons i remember being taunted so so that's what's weird about it is it's like it's like scenes of a movie with generally there's a catharsis you don't know that's why they just say before you go in they go the only way out is through you're like i go fuck yourself the only way out is through what kind of shit is that the only way out is through what the fuck does that mean you know again that was my arrogance and my own delusion and that's true in life though yeah yeah and i was just and you're like what does that mean well it means that no matter how bad it is with the ayahuasca i remember i would i would you know i would do mask and then i would open up the mask and try to look around and a demon at whatever it is entity says oh you think you can open your eyes and it just showed me like the most fucked up things i've ever seen people being tortured to death killed like horror like the road have you ever seen the movie the road no like a cannibal like a horror film and then it said oh you think you can take your eye mask off you can't run you're running from yourself you're trying to run from yourself and you can never run for yourself like what am i running from then i'm like what am i running from what what do you mean i'm because if you talk to me at that point in my life you would be talking to a very you're not be talking to this person you would be talking to a person who's like oh yeah i i got things figured out man like i got things figured out and i can prove it i grew up poor i've had some things happen that haven't been so good in my life i've had to navigate life with a bipolar mom power da da da da da like i know life you talk to me now i'm like i mean i have ideas you know things that i think are like the path forward but that that person was just shown you are in the spirit realm you are nothing you are nothing and you're so arrogant you're out here you like you have no power so and it says you're running from yourself and i was like what am i running from and it goes all that success you chased and all the whatever a clint whatever it is i was trying to do they go that was just masking your heart your your your the the the trauma the trauma that you have and that everything you're doing is just to mask that like that's bullshit you know that doesn't make any sense so it's like okay because you're because you're and by this i mean i'm you're talking to a guide so when i'm saying this this is not like an internal monologue this is you're talking to something outside of yourself it's like dante's infernal like the guide and the guide said okay you know big mouth you want to argue like we'll just vortex you back and uh the spirit realm so then it's it's like you close your eyes that's why i'm like it's like and seeing you're like oh you're like you're in like a new scene and then like it shows you something from like when you were a child or maybe in my case it was like something from when i was like a child that was remember it was like it was showing me it was showing me the house i grew up in and i was like why is it showing me the house like my house i grew up in this like small shitty house i hated it we had holes in the carpet like i was embarrassed to bring people over i was like why why am i being shown my house what like i hate that fucking house i hate this fucking house why are you showing me this house and then it and then like voice is like you had all the love in the world in that house your dad loved you your mom loved you they did the best that they could do and you think that you can just like give your kids money because that's your own thing you know like well you grew up poor so but it's like you took the love for granted you just like you had all this love but you didn't have money so then that becomes your hang-up like oh do i have enough and like well if my kids have enough what do you need what do you need me for you know like what's that for it was it was like all the love in the world was in the house and you hated that house and you like you didn't even know it i was like oh fuck you know so like i always loved my dad had good relationship i was like oh my god like it was like and what was it like for your dad to be poor like not how to make a what was that like for him you know and you're just like oh fuck you know like he was poor too you guys were just poor that was like the town lost the factory and people were jobless and that's just every kid's dad went through the same thing you worked at a factory and then you had to find some other kind of shitty job and you kind of find something else and then eventually my dad figured it out by then i was like in high school so it didn't really impact my life either way and then i was like oh fuck i have all this i have all these issues around money just in a way that's like traumatic you know not just in a way that you know people need money to live and you want to be greedy and but i like i had no idea and i never would i never would like reach that conclusion emotionally and then and then you're like zooming out and it's just like oh it's like there's like love the the love of your family the love that god has for you and then and i was like fuck okay so then i close eyes like you wake back up and it's like look it was literally like an old grandfather or something like something out of gandalf or something and it's like look and it goes it's like in a very calming like masculine voice it says it's not supposed to be this way and it was just like he was like doing this he's like it's not supposed to be this way and i look and like like i said i'm laying down and i look and i see this gandalf like figure floating and like i was like it's not supposed to be this way i was like what's not supposed to be this way and then he just showed all the the light it's like the lights are all separate now you're supposed to be together it's supposed to be communion it's supposed to be that everyone's you know loving each other and you just want to like kill kill each other he goes this this is not how it's supposed to be it was like it was like a frustrated dad who was like this is like this is not how it's supposed to be this is not how it's supposed to be okay you know this is so above my pay grade you know i don't even know like and that's how i know it's not coming for me i'm like if i could come up with stuff like this people would think i was a genius you know this is not my brain and i'm so smart and then i like go back under and then i come back up i hear this like scream and it was like the scream of an enraged mom basically screaming at like the same situation so then you know it takes years to put all this together and everything but that was like showing me the masculine the logos and the the way like a father governs and then like the rage of a mom and the children like are not getting together and you know the tension of the tension of male and female and then i like i saw a old woman's face on a mountain i was like i don't even know where this is from i never read any books before this and that's Pachamama so that's a different kind of entity so in that case i saw like whatever whatever Pachamama was the you know mother earth or whatever and paganism that people describe it as so i'm just going you know back and forth between flashbacks to my life wait so you saw a demon that others identified a woman's head in a mountain yeah yeah Pachamama i had no idea yeah i didn't i didn't do my research before going in so i'd know like i so what you're saying is these are definitely not parts of your subconscious that rose to the surface they're there yeah they're unless it's a parabola that our unconscious is you know there's a theory that that that our unconscious is generating our experience in real time but it's not it wasn't me it wasn't a book i read it was because i was again like atheist so every rationalistic argument they could say well you probably just like no i never studied aztec culture and indian culture but i didn't know what Pachamama was and so there was they're like they're external entities so the the older figure you could say maybe well that was uh the guardian and you read dante's inferno in high school right that was some thing in your unconscious that surfaced but Pachamama and other kind of entities were not so beyond my cultural understanding or my my knowledge so yeah so then you're going like you're going back into that and like you go through it really i mean it's not a pleasurable there aren't a lot of ayahuasca addicts right is that true and it's not covered by medicaid no no they they're um which is which is a good thing because i i don't know um a lot of you don't want it's some fly-by-night shaman or you end up with the wrong situation it's all in mexico right a lot of things can go bad they're um they're they're different areas i south africa i'd done it before and how many times have you done it nine ten times actually yeah they're um oh yeah they're it because it's just you go in and the i had a lot of i had a lot of i mean i like i had a i had a lot of things that i had to beat out of me i used to like just like we're earlier we're talking about how you you know a certain amount of stoicism we all have which like i think is good and i think therapeutic culture goes too far where you don't want to sit around and like talk about how bad it was being a kid but a lot of us and i learned this dealing with a lot of a lot of veterans have done plant medicine uh i don't know if you've seen in waves in war yet with ambus amber marcus macone capone amber marcus capone they're amazing so you have all these vets who were suicidal and then they a lot a lot of them do ibogaine they go down to ibogaine clinic that's what vets is a charity i've sponsored um donated to you know for a number of years and vet solutions and so with me the you you realize that a like a lot of what we do that we think of as virtuous is trying to we're trying to hide something from ourselves we're trying to make it so that we can't be vulnerable and so with veterans especially they they you know they find out a lot of things that happened when they were kids and that's why they became the men they were because you're driven by the sense that like i'll never be weak and powerless again right i'll never be weak and powerless again which that's a good thing you shouldn't be weak and powerless but if you have all this other stuff underneath that then maybe you don't love your kids the way you're capable of or maybe you're afraid to love your kids and wife the way you are because maybe you're you are afraid to be hurt and that's another aspect i think where therapy called therapy culture has taken things too far where you're like oh let's like talk about our trauma like all day and relive things where it's not like but maybe for a weekend you know yeah maybe spend a weekend and talk about it and figure it out then and and work through it don't you don't have to like live it so i just i just i had so many lessons on how how i was just a fool basically it's just a fool well that sounds i mean i mean i love that my concern is if the demons are real aren't you afraid they'll enter you that's that's the big debate right sarah from rose wrote a book the soul after death so if you talk to josiah trentum he would just say well this is demonic in this pharmakia and absolutely like absolutely not that that's kind of my instinct it wouldn't even be a debate yeah there's there's really like no debate to be had and my my position is i always warn people away from it because it's a monumental undertaking it's not just something that oh yeah we'll go eat some shrooms and go take a hike in nature right it's not in the same world and a lot can go wrong and it can disrupt a person's life well i've seen that yeah too with with uh people's lives being destroyed by heavy-duty hallucinations like in what way a friend who killed himself um was from lsd but you know yeah wrecked relationships yeah lsd lsd is poisonous that they can cause a lot of issues and the that's why it's more more or less like if you're the like the guys especially that vets and and amber and marcus and them work with these are guys that are going to kill themselves and they're alcoholics most likely we're not we're not talking like oh i'm living like life is great and i'm living in a state of love i'm gonna go drink ayahuasca this weekend right it's more like or in my case where you're just being pushed there because i was living in such a state of folly and delusion yes that there there was like no other way so in my in my belief i think god pushed me there i think i think it was god and he showed me this is the only way that i can show you that you are just not who you you are just a delusional fool and this is the only way that we're good to know that yeah and the message like got through and then you know i have drank and you know had more tea since then but it's not something that i that i do regularly so what about the threat though of the demon entering you you said you had serpents inside you i should just say i believe you but i mean the consequences of being i mean the first missionary trip jesus sends the disciples on all he says is cast out demons the whole new testaments jesus casting out demons the disciples casting out demons like that's completely real in my opinion yeah and the and but the consequence of living my i was probably demon possessed before the ayahuasca because i was so i'd been deluded by dark forces into thinking that i was something that i wasn't yeah so in my view it isn't where oh i was such a holy person in my mind i would have thought i was yeah no it's like the opposite where like whatever i was before that i'm not that way now and whatever path i'm on is like about god and christianity and like trying you know finding more love in the world and divine communion and just knowing that you're just not like uh you're just not a paycheck to your kids you know and i didn't even treat him like i was just a paycheck but it was just some it was i would just it was a glibness that i had yeah so it's just the the the ayahuasca has just burned out all the glibness that i had where i can't even laugh at things sometimes i'm just like i just that's just not funny i'm in a way i'm like too serious it's like why are you laughing it's a very non-american approach this is just not funny trump is so fun i don't care fuck fun i hate fun what do you mean fun we don't get to have fun on this world fun you want to have fun what are you a little kid right so it's it's driven it's driven all of that out of me and in a way that i couldn't have reached intellectually so how does it make you feel about death it may well one i know there's a judgment i don't think there's a judgment i know there's a final judgment for sure really so for me it's not even i think you're right but what convinced you of that because i just was in the spirit world like i saw my divine judgment judgment and my divine judgment was hell you know that was that was like my divine judgment and so one is i just i know there's a final judgment to the point where when people say oh you're whatever crazy or whatever i don't even get offended i'm just like brother i was that was me i was you i was you before this so how can i be upset with you for thinking this when that was what i thought before then so like i know there's a final judgment i know the accounting is in the human heart it's not the words it's not in what you say it's not in how holy you can be and how you can tell everybody else they're not holy and you're you know you're mr holier than thou and everybody else is a sinner it's your this the human heart is going to be weighed and measured by god in my opinion it's jesus christ and you know in my opinion it's christianity and jesus christ but i'm but i'm not a um i'm not into the apologetics where we argue in mind all day about like what it is i think the human heart is going to be weighed that's something that that god's going to determine at the judgment i know that i'm accountable for everything and i know having died like for all purposes like i have died i have died and i know that when you die the only thing you're going to think about is the people you left behind so all of this materialism and oh no somebody i'm i'm being picked on today on the internet or i'm being canceled again or this and that like none of that came up actually one one funny thing that came up was during one of my journeys i was like i was under and i saw some things i came up and it goes whatever it it whatever that's what i mean i don't know what it is i still understand it they said you know how blessed you are that you've been like attacked and everything they go you can talk about anything that's right doesn't matter people are just like oh wow certainly if he talks about ayahuasca we fucking knew he was crazy anyway you know like this is probably the least crazy thing that he's like said all week whereas if i were more of like legitimate and respectable then i would have to think well how's this going to play how's this going to play should i talk about this should i tell tucker are people going to clip this up and make fun of me what is this going to impact my standing with the administration and all the serious people in the world are they going to none of that comes up all that came up was arm are is my family going to be okay that's the only thing that i could think about so then you go from there well are they have you loved them do they know you love them do you tell them that every day are you saying your prayers like every night because tomorrow's not promised i could be in a car right now flip over and die in a second people die all the time in a second we take it for granted charlie kirk is dead charlie kirk is dead and that hurt me too that hurt me bad i haven't cried so much in the past three months in my whole life and i don't care to admit i've cried about it you know i think that's a problem people have is oh you know we don't it's like i don't know whatever a real man is i think i'm pretty pretty high up there and i've been crying more in the past few months than i have my whole life combined and you realize like charlie just died he just went went to work he's dead his kids don't see him they're not with them at christmas we're on the internet arguing about fucking tyler robinson and was it the massad was it charlie's kids they don't have a christmas with them anymore they don't have a christmas with them erica goes home to an empty house and then she goes on the internet and everybody's just saying the worst things in the world about her she's not even my friend but she's a mom there's the worst things in the world about her that and they had christmas without their dad what's that like what's it like to have christmas without your dad a lot of people go through that so do my do my kids know this might be our last christmas together but i'm going to be here i'm going to try to make it home but if i don't make it home you know i love you you know i love you you know that you're my world and that i'm obsessed with you and they never for a minute they never for a minute have to wonder what like does dad love us is dad you know is dad good to us nobody in my life i text my friends the most dopey shit you know like love you man just thinking about you just thinking about you i never never did that before just the dopiest like most sentimental stuff that you can imagine hope you're okay how like think about all your friends you have all of us have these man friends we're also you know mainly me when's the last time somebody's just like hey bro i hope you're okay just thinking about you that's nothing i'm not uh not poetry but i just oh i haven't talked to this guy in a couple months i'm sure he's doing fine maybe he's not doing fine though maybe he's not why do we think everybody's doing fine right why why fair that's our delusion that's the fault that's the fallacy everybody the the folly which everybody's doing fine and then you don't reach out and then you go oh well wish i'd have seen it coming you know maybe you would maybe you wouldn't have so i think i meditate on death i think about every day every day i meditate on it and it gives me uh a sense of of calming if that makes any sense that's exactly right avoiding death is what makes you neurotic facing it makes you calm gives you peace because that's the root of all fear obviously is the it's the fear of dying fear death and the fear of status and the fear of the the egoistic attachments that we all to our names our reputations how did it affect your relationship with your wife just like i'm like obsessed with my wife like i'm just a sump for my wife which i wish if you you'd have to ask her but i don't know that she would have said that was true you know or maybe necessarily like early on like all i think about is my wife and kids like like if i make money like i don't even care i just like get rid of it you know get it to them like what people like aren't you worried about your wife like leaving you or your kids i'm like i don't care i mean i really like i don't care i i mean signing all your money over to your wife yeah yeah you should do that yeah i mean i did it's the right thing no there's a lot of peace in that too totally it's like you're gonna get blood from a turnip come after me and i've lived it you're very very disappointed when you start tip me upside down and maybe you get a few quarters out of the pocket so it's made me just it's completely like obsessed with her and the kids it's made me like i've gotten much nicer even online than i used to be you know because you just think so much of it is i'm not perfect you know because people can but i mean my god not even i'm not even i wouldn't say i'm good let alone perfect but you just realize like maybe that guy's just having a bad day you know the guy cuts you off that's right i'm mad i'm honking at him i'm gonna fight maybe that guy's kid's dead dude maybe his kid is in the hospital and now i'm just adding so i'm always about like i don't want to add to the trauma burden of the world what what like who knows what other people and that doesn't mean i'm gonna let people walk all over me and everything but who knows what people are going through man you just like you never know so i think i think about that all the time like i don't have like i don't have any doubts that my kids know where we stand my friends know where we stand the people who aren't my friends know where we stand because i don't have time for like fake love and fake pleasantries and everything it's either like we're like it's real or it's not it's not real there's just no point why even why even go into that middle space and i just my love for my dad which was always very strong was like even stronger my empathy for my dad my mom you know because you think about what you always think about what they did right to you because we're the center of our own story because you have to be here you can't live i'm not i'm not diminishing that but then once you start thinking about like what happened to them what happened to them that got them right here and then suddenly you're like yeah man whatever my problems are my problems are what i went through as i went through but every everybody everybody is going through that everybody's going through something and then and then as that expands i think that's meaning and i think that's how you connect more with god because yeah that's the divine communion empathy you know empathy is part of the divine communion that's why charity is part of the divine communion that's why these are all taught by christ even people who don't believe in them see the the logic in it is you're it's just this communion with the divine and the better we are to each other the more in touch we are with the the divine and the more that we fight and we bicker and we squabble and in the case of war we kill each other the further the further away we are from god you know scott adams quite well he's facing death it sounds like no no that's why i've been crying i've been telling you i've just been crying you know i saw some video shauna sent me a video and he's like you know a lot of people don't know this but when i was just starting off like mike cernovich like really helped me out and really boosted and which is it is true but i was like he's on his death bed he's thinking about other people and i'm wrapped up in my own yeah bullshit aren't we all every day yeah so he you know charlie's dead scott's dead we're all getting older you know there's tragedy all around us every day and you want to start thinking about your own life and not that we don't already so with scott adams dying that's like a huge loss i was again i i'd leave my house because i was crying i was like not that i'm afraid to cry in front of my kids but they'd be like why are you crying dad who's you know it's just like i just gotta i just gotta take a walk and i'm just walking and i'm like which is another thing too i liked about that i couldn't cry before i want you to like hold it in you know you hold it in and once you get good at working with the plant medicine you learn it's just a wave man it's just a wave let the waves flow why are we so afraid like why are we so afraid to cry by ourselves right like why if you're in a room by yourself and things are surfacing whether you're with the plants or not with the plants who's there to look at you other than god what are you afraid of i don't know what what are we afraid of that is scary that's the that's the the ego in us that keeps us alive but also enslaves us that's the part that desires the illusion of control so when you're when you're letting things go you have to surrender control for a minute you do have to like lose your shit for a minute and then that that part of the the egoism wants to wants to fight against that and wants to feel like i you know i don't do this and then be dignified we don't do this like we don't cry it's like well i mean i don't think it's healthy to cry around your wife all the time right it's not right i'm not a good idea yeah i'm not saying walk around and like we're don't cry in front of your wife all the time we're weepy you know we're weepy all the time but that's a recipe for celibacy yeah yeah that's that's not that's not an ideal thing but like when my wife had a miscarriage i like i cried the hell out of that i just in my office by myself and i cried and then i you know when i noticed i started talking to people or i you know i wrote about it they're like i had a miscarriage i was like why does nobody talk about this i know you can't talk about it that felt like a kid died i was not even pro-life at that point i was like yeah politically kind of am and when we had that miscarriage my kid died my kid is dead true and from that i was like oh pro-life you know i just i just was an idiot i didn't really understand that's such a common story though you hear from people yeah you know but people don't talk about it well you're right yeah that's another thing and then everybody's walking around holding everything in they're like why are people getting drunk why are people doing opioids why are people well why do you think because they're they're they're just like holding on to it and then then they want to mask the feelings as they bubble up so they find alcohol or they find drugs or they find pornography or they the devil loves that that's that's the thing too where i go back and forth on the demonic thing with ayahuasca i was telling a friend about this actually i told a friend and he goes he goes what are you doing this weekend i was like oh i got i'm doing some fasting and i'm gonna do ayahuasca retreats like ayahuasca that's sounds dangerous and scary and i go where are you going he's like i'm going to vegas and i go that sounds dangerous and scary to me well you're gonna be amongst the drunks and you might get hit by a drunk driver and you might drink too much and find yourself in a strange bed that to me but that's where the devil wants you i agree because if you start looking at i like with the ayahuasca thing even having some experience with it i'm talking myself out of it until the minute that i drink the tea up until that very second that i drink the tea i'm thinking of every excuse in the world to not drink it because i don't want to drink it i don't want to do it but if 10 years ago you said hey do you want to go some take take some shots of vodka and other things about oh yeah that sounds like a great time of course right so then you have to that's where the discernment comes in and that's where it becomes a heavier question well why is it that i want to do things that we know we're a sin that we know we're damaging and i want to i'm excited for that but i don't want to do this thing that is like demonic with all of my being i do not if the i do not want to ever drink ayahuasca for the rest of my life i do not want to that doesn't mean i won't but i don't want to but why though why don't i want to well it's it's because of the the spiritual awakening or the spiritual reckoning that happens and the the realizations which fundamentally i think have made me more again i don't want to say a good person but it certainly made me change my life and live differently have there been any downsides you got to be comfortable with spiritual spiritual confusion which we won so i have a certain there's a certain like weight now that i have you ever hear that expression like the unbearable lightness of being of course and it's like very california thing and everybody's all about lighten up man you know chill out you should like learn to relax and i do and a friend of mine who who found the medicine after i did remember we were hanging out he came out to one of the garden he goes mike i was like yeah what's up brother what's up he goes i don't know how to say this he goes but since drinking ayahuasca and he's a christian he plays in his band you know in the he plays guitar in a band at church every Sunday he goes so i don't know how to say i go oh you're like really spiritually confused right he goes yes and i go what do you think i like know the answer he's like he goes all i'm thinking about is like am i doing the right thing and there there's a there's a confusion but like in a good way where i think that a lot of people think well i'm i'm a christian i'm saved i accepted jesus as my lord and savior once saved always saved and then i'll just sort of live my life and maybe go to church and try to be a good person or whatever but you feel like i'm a you know i'm a christian like i've checked the box whereas when you with the medicine i think it's the opposite where you're just on any moment you're just waging against whatever sin the darkness and you're just like i don't know man i like i believe but i don't i don't really know what's going to happen i i hope i you know i hope i'm doing the right things and that level of spiritual confusion i think is not meant for everyone so i don't think most people are i think almost nobody should should drink ayahuasca i think almost no one should i think it's only something that if a person feels like they're going to do it anyway and no amount of persuasion for me is going to work then that's something to talk about but i i don't think people should should dabble in this kind of stuff really but if you're a vet and you're like looking at the bottom of a bottle of jack daniels you got a gun next to you let's get you to mexico you know let's get you to peru like that's that's a whole different have you ever known anyone who's been made worse by it we're worse is worse is a hard way of putting it because people go through phases so i've what happens with some people unfortunately is because you are getting quote unquote like downloads from the universe people do kind of chase that download of the universe dragon versus like the hard work of living in life right so drinking ayahuasca once you kind of have a hang of it it's never easy but it's like you put on your space suit and you kind of know you know you kind of know like you drink it and you can feel it moving through you and your hands start to feel like you have carpal tunnel and right when you feel like you sort of stretch out you're like oh yeah i'm the medicine's about to hit and you can't direct the experience in an active way but you sort of know what you're you're getting into the first couple times god help you and what people will do then is rather than undertake the hard work of being alive the hard work is here the the the realizations that i had change how i live here but the hard work is still like i don't know this is a great talk i'm gonna leave here i'm like i think that was a good talk and then i'm gonna be like wrapped up about some business thing you know or mad about something that somebody did to me or wondering about some you know uncertain thing and then the you know the demons come in and kind of kind of steal your joy so the hard work is here and in planet earth why are we here that's again goes to the meaning of life question the um like take the garden of eden story for example even if it's not real why was it written i mean if it's not real it was written as a metaphor i suppose why though to tell us about the nature of god and man that's one yeah but i think it's this is not our home yeah right we just we know we don't we know we don't belong here right the the garden of eden is whatever this is this is not like we were whether we were cast out of eden because we listened to the serpent and we rejected god whether that's literal that's a metaphor the the underlying feeling is that we are aliens on this planet yeah however we got here is a different question the new testament says that a lot and we're just like stuck in these like bodies that don't want to cooperate and that want to lead us to things that we on a spiritual level maybe don't want to do so so that the only real downside that i've seen from people who have done the plant medicine although there are bad stories like they're like i after i had a really big night and the guy said you know if you're thinking about leaving your wife call me first and i go i love my wife more than ever i was like it actually would be the opposite he goes okay he goes but you had a big night so what happens is a lot of times that people have a big night the facilitator or shaman guy isn't good or he's fly by night and you're just like oh i realize i'm not living the way i'm supposed to and they just like up in their life yeah i know someone who did that yeah yeah so that is a 100 a risk and that's why i'm always hesitant to talk about it because i don't want to seem like i'm glamorizing it i want to like when i talk about ayahuasca i want it to sound kind of like foreboding yes maybe you shouldn't do this you probably shouldn't do this you probably should you might just blow up your whole life you probably shouldn't do it to to avoid people going in and saying it's like no bro you didn't want you you were just bored right you were just bored and now you like destroyed your whole life and the real the real work is the homework the homework is this what we got to do here the downloads from the universe might feel great at the time or you might feel like you have all this insight and connection to a super intelligence to superpower but you're still back here on planet earth so why don't you spend more time here in this body and playing earth and figuring out the the best way to live your life has the experience made you more aware of like the spiritual realm around you day to day i see everything that spiritual realm yeah every i see everything as being interests entities trying to act upon humanity in some kind of cosmic war that we don't really understand but for whatever reason humans are a very important part of it now my belief again is the orthodox christian part which is like i accept the orthodox christianity story is the true one but i'm just you know i'm trying not to be uh you know like i'm a priest because god no go to josiah trentum or someone if you want a priest stay far away from me like that's people ask me religious questions i'm like get away from me and find josiah trentum i feel the same way so far away from me please i have no no standing yeah yeah get away so i'm just saying like my own belief is that god created man we have bodies the demons envy us because they they can't be satiated they don't have bodies they hate us when they attack us that's their revenge against god so the demons are constantly trying to use us they can't be satiated how in what why why do you say that because they're floating around in a spirit they've been denied bodies so that they are roaming around like in a zombie kind of state always thought that one of the hallmarks of like hell on earth is the inability to be satiated satisfied full yes whether it's eating bad food or having the wrong kind of sex it's like it's never enough or drugs or alcohol or insomnia yeah imagine yeah so they're walking around in insomnia they hate us they hate humans and they want to hurt us and they more importantly want us to hurt each other to harm god that's how they see us because the demons think they're going to win remember like if you're a christian we say well we know how the story ends god wins in the end right the demons don't believe that though we believe that they don't believe it so they believe that the they can turn us against each other they can get us to hurt each other they can like a lot of demons enter people through traumatic experiences yes they believe they believe they're going to win this is not and their minds they are the winners in the end they're going to win so they want to use us to get us to harm each other because they see that as harming god more than anything else so we're constantly being acted upon so i'm constantly like praying for discernment discernment discernment discernment discernment am i being manipulated am i being led astray because i mean on a political level i've been played before by people by sources not knowing it oh me too and then i find out a lot yeah yeah so i'm so like when people tell me things like oh here's the truth about the venezuela raid or here's the truth about israel or here's the truth about palestine it's like discernment am i just being played because everybody wants you you know especially at your level that's what i was telling telling you guys earlier like i think the lord above that i am not you that i'm not russell brand that i am not tim pool that i am not any of you guys because i'm so weak and pathetic i couldn't imagine if i had your guys yeah it's not you can say that you can brush it off but um i have so many dogs and children that it's like i don't even notice but uh all right i make myself not notice but no but i think anyone who's in a position where other people listen to him is under particularly fierce attack constant no just imagine that the text like jd is that's right just like unreal um because even sometimes i'm like yeah you know i'll see something you said like i don't i don't agree with that and i go man i'm not gonna be another guy texting tucker nagging him about please do nagging him about something but no so i so there is the risk that as you've seen happen a person is kind of an ayahuasca tourist they go in they go oh my whole life has been a lie and therefore i'm just gonna like blow up my whole life don't do that like and if the person you're with is not if the shaman or whatever the facilitator is not telling you like don't do that then then you're in the wrong place but other but other than that and people getting caught in the the trap of downloads i've seen like the biggest baddest men on the planet that just want to like hug their kids and they went from ptsd and staring off into the void and drinking and fighting with their wives and riding motorcycles too fast just for a rush and because frankly like maybe they maybe it is a death wish of course it is right and then you take away responsibility because you go oh i just got in a crash i didn't kill myself like some pussy you know i just got in a wreck but really you're they're trying to kill themselves and just become like it's actually pretty it's actually changed my view on a lot of this like real men don't cry and you see all this bravado and i'm like dude i've cried with the delta force guy i've cried with the seal team six guy you are not more whatever your definition of manly is you are like not more if you ever see like marcus capone is like this you are not more manly than marcus capone or dj shipley or any of these other guys that that's like for sure so they're so i at the very least i do hope it because again i don't want people to listen to this go to ayahuasca it's an immense that would be immensely damaging for somebody to do that based on what i'm saying to me i don't want them to do it that wouldn't be a nice thing to do to me but i do hope that people can say yeah what's the big deal like i'm by myself in a room and i'm praying and i i cry why am i holding it in who cares right and then find that find that ego is the reason i think you're exactly right so last question we were in a period of we're in a huge change period of course and one of the qualities of it is chaos it's just a chaotic moment it's hard to understand especially if you're you know 50 and you've been watching this stuff your whole life it's like all of a sudden this weren't this is a departure how much of that chaos is like spiritual it always has been i mean you remember that song sympathy for devil rolling stone of course what if that's not a song what if that's real right well it is real right so in in my view that the the the jacobin terror the bolshevik revolution the spanish civil war what's happening in ukraine yeah it's all the same it's all part of the same strain so i think that we because again you're born into a certain period of time and then we tend to overweight the time that we're in and we see it maybe in a different color than it should be we're not like your son isn't getting drafted in the vietnam war we're not getting drafted in the world war ii we're not getting drafted in the world war i i think that in terms of even though he's kind of a lamester steven pinker is like better angels i think we were on the trend to towards a better world and we've seen that that's been upended but that we're still in a good time and what we do want to have is our as our north star is is like preserving order knowing that like we're going to have conflict but if we can find some kind of allyship or alliance and that means everybody has to pull their own weight then we shouldn't give into the rancor and the infighting and i i used to be an infighter and like infighting a lot and i've cut down on that by at least half it's a good new year's resolution mike sternovich that that didn't go in the direction i'd anticipated was much better and more interesting and deeper thank you thank you my pleasure